QTo, button, flops top pair w/draw [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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TripleH68

02-15-2005, 07:32 PM

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets...

ThisHo

02-15-2005, 08:12 PM

hmmm.... any reads on villain?

raising/calling 3-bet means he's probably going to raise here, hero calls.

At this point I'm putting him on 76(hearts???) / QJ / AT (hearts?) / KT / KJ / KQ (in decending order).
On the river:
if its a heart or a J I bet or raise (just call if 3bet) if its a non-heart/non-J --- I uh, well, uh, hmmm... w/o any read at all I call because I may be good 1 in 10 times (not sure about this though) and if not I've now got a small piece of a read on the villain (please take this call the river suggestion with a grain of salt -- I HATE folding the river for 1 bet with TP). Bet if checked to (he won't try to c/r twice will he?).

I think hero is in some trouble here though.

ThisHo!

Shillx

02-15-2005, 08:19 PM

There are lots of good reasons to check the turn here. The only good ones I can think to not is if he is a calling machine or if we have him on AJ/KJ (where he could have a heart).

Brad

TripleH68

02-15-2005, 09:31 PM

Oops. Forgot read on villain. He is a bit loose and not too aggro postflop. By that I mean I felt once I 3-bet he was not likely to raise anything but a flush.

So I planned betting the turn and reevaluating on the river.

What would my bet 3-bet on the flop mean to you?

Shillx

02-15-2005, 09:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What would my bet 3-bet on the flop mean to you?

[/ QUOTE ]

A hand that needs protection such as top pair. Something like AT-JT or even T9 for top 2.

Brad

TripleH68

02-16-2005, 06:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets...

[/ QUOTE ]

MP3 called me down and tabled Q9 MHIG. I can see why checking behind on the turn is the more reasonable play(maybe against better players?). Thanks...

02-16-2005, 06:21 PM

What a pleasure to read a post displayed so neatly! However, next time perhaps you should concentrate on playing good poker rather than creating such an aesthetically pleasing visual representation of your hand. Your reraise on the flop represents all that is wrong with this new generation of maniacal online poker players. Be honest. What factors did you consider when it was your turn to act? From the looks of it, it didn't get much deeper than "I have a hole card that matches the biggest card on the table. I raise!"

TripleH68

02-16-2005, 06:59 PM

Thanks for the sound advice. If you are mad at the world or something may I suggest visiting a psychologist or counselor?

02-16-2005, 07:09 PM

You have a mediocre redraw and a weak draw (gut shot to a one card straight with minimal implied odds). If your hand his good, which it probably isn't, you are probably facing some big draws. Your two pair outs have little value, because a Q makes anyone else a straight. The pot is small, thus your reverse implied odds are magnified. You might have to pay multiple bets on later streets only to find out that your top pair with a so-so kicker is no good. This is the trouble with hands like QTo. I can't blame you for playing it preflop, but you must be aware of the danger of flops like this. There are a million draws against you, and if you're behind, you're often far behind.

deadmunny

02-16-2005, 07:17 PM

Right so HHH, with this hand if you flopped anything less than:
10,10,Q
Q,Q,10
A,K,J

You HAVE to fold and to be honest the A,K,J unless it is rainbow is a questionable call because of the possibilty of the back-door flush........ You will NEVER win money playing unless you flop the absolut nuts!!!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif,

Regards D

02-16-2005, 07:23 PM

Perhaps you should read what I've written rather than following the weak tight stigma that follows me. The effective odds you're getting with such a vulnerable hand coupled with the tremendous reverse implied odds implicit with having a pair of tens on draw heavy board make this hand not worth playing.

Clarkmeister

02-17-2005, 02:32 AM

imported_PP123

02-17-2005, 02:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets...

[/ QUOTE ]

I really like this every step of the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about calling the flop, planning to raise a blank on the turn? Or does a 3-bet better protect the hand against the players who checked. The board is pretty scary. Comments?

imported_PP123

02-17-2005, 04:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets...

[/ QUOTE ]

I really like this every step of the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about calling the flop, planning to raise a blank on the turn? Or does a 3-bet better protect the hand against the players who checked. The board is pretty scary. Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

Any comment on my thoughts would be appreciated.

Clarkmeister

02-17-2005, 05:35 PM

Waiting for the turn is nice when there is nothing you can do to thin the field *now*. However, when you are handed a chance to confront players with 3 bets cold, you should take it.

imported_PP123

02-17-2005, 09:26 PM

Thanks for the reply CM. On more question. Is this an easy 3-bet evan without the gutshot??? (Posts like this get me realize im way too passive)