Kennedy Assasination Conspiracies Debunked

[Jake (The Snake)]

This really should be posted in November but I got to thinking about it again today.

A year or two ago, some channel (I can't remember which) ran a special showing the dynamics of the magic bullet based on computer simulations and such. Basically, it confirmed that Oswald killed Kennedy and from the exact window that has been rumored.

Also, a fantastic website further debunking the myths: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

It's just strikes me that so many people still believe in this massive conspiracy when all the evidence points otherwise.

[jasonHoldEm]

[ QUOTE ]
It's just strikes me that so many people still believe in this massive conspiracy when all the evidence points otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pfft...that's just what they want you to think.

[AngryCola]

I believe it was on the History Channel recently, and originally aired on ABC.

It definitely showed how much of a crock Oliver Stone's J.F.K. really is.

[shadow29]

Yeah, but it was an f'n good film, no matter how much Stone manipulates you...

[gonores]

I did my undergrad at Marquette, and I actually took the class offered by Dr. McAdams concerned solely with the dissection of the Kennedy Assassination. Although most of this site does offer arguments against conspiracy theorists, I can assure you that Dr. McAdams is not outspoken either for or against the lone gunman theory.

The class really kicked ass though.

[TimM]

Back in a previous life, I read Best Evidence (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0025718703/qid=1108518212/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-7375746-2797515?v=glance&s=books&n=507846), By David Lifton.

Looks like he got debunked too:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/medical.htm

[Jake (The Snake)]

wow I would absolutely love to take a class like that...

anyway, I know Dr. Mcadams isn't neccesarily for or againts the lone gunman theory but that is what was proved (at least in my opinion) by the TV special that ran last year. It was mostly ballistic evidence with computer simulations and I think Angrycola was right about when and wehre it aired.

[Daliman]

Yes, since someone put up a website with his take on it, his view MUST be right.

[pshreck]

BACK, and to the left.... back, and to the left... back, and to the left... back, and to the left... back, and to the left

[Alobar]

I saw this on the history channell not to long ago, it was INCREDIBLY interesting.

[ClaytonN]

According to the site jake linked to, History Channel's special is a load of crap.

(and I saw the special too. Meh)

[AngryCola]

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According to the site jake linked to, History Channel's special is a load of crap.

(and I saw the special too. Meh)

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither of the History Channel specials which that site refers to are the one being discussed here.

I forget what the recent special was called.

[jesusarenque]

I am not arguing for or against a conspiracy, but just because it was proven that there was only one gunman doesn't mean there wasn't a conspiracy.

[ClaytonN]

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Neither of the History Channel specials which that site refers to are the one being discussed here.

I forget what the recent special was called.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the one I saw was "The Men Who Killed Kenneddy"

[AngryCola]

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[ QUOTE ]
Neither of the History Channel specials which that site refers to are the one being discussed here.

I forget what the recent special was called.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the one I saw was "The Men Who Killed Kenneddy"

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's different.

The one which was made for ABC and recently shown on the History Channel is called
"Peter Jennings Reporting: The Kennedy Assassination - Beyond Conspiracy".

[gonores]

Dr. McAdams is generally regarded as one of top five Kennedy assassination experts in the world. He has run this assassination class every spring semester for the past twenty-some years. Each student who takes the class does a research project on some minute detail of the assassination (for instance, I did mine on attempting to prove the presence, or lack thereof, of Beverly Oliver-a dancer at one of Ruby's nightclubs-at a dinner Jack Ruby attended the night before the assassination). Depending on how intruiging the nature of the project is, McAdams has been known to foot the bill for travel expenses to Dallas, New Orleans, Miami, Chicago, etc. His office is nothing more than stacks and stacks of these reports and other assassination literature. This man has made it his life's work to know more about this assassination than anyone else.

I can assure you this is not just "some guy on the internet."

[Jake (The Snake)]

This is correct. That "men who killed Kennedy" series contains lots and lots of inaccuracies. The Peter Jennings one is the one I was talking about.

[Daliman]

Be that as it may, it doesn't specifically "prove" anything. Now, the burden is quite high, however, and maybe insurmountable, but this is a subject i am VERY familiar with, so I will give it a look.

I'm interested in seeing how he thinks LHO got off those shots with that rifle and got such good hits.

[-Syk-]

The Kennedy Assassination (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread36529/pg1)
The Single Bullet Theory (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread36544/pg1)
The Head Shot (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread36811/pg1)
The Autopsy Photos and X-Rays (http://www.belowtopsecret.com/viewthread.php?tid=37668)
Faulty Evidence: The Case Against Lee Harvey Oswald (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread48402/pg1)
Altering Zapruder's Film (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread73494/pg1)

[nongice626]

Long after John Kennedy is seen in the Zapruder film moving his arms toward his throat in response to being hit, John Connally is seen holding his hat. Conspiracy writers insist that he could not possibly have held on to the hat after his wrist was shattered by a bullet. The implication is that yet another bullet hit Connally at some later point, contrary to the Single Bullet Theory. But Nellie Connally says that John held the hat on the way to Parkland Hospital. The late Governor Connally was a loyal son of Texas. He's probably still holding that hat.

Sorry, but alot of his statements are very suspect.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
The Kennedy Assassination (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread36529/pg1)
The Single Bullet Theory (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread36544/pg1)
The Head Shot (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread36811/pg1)
The Autopsy Photos and X-Rays (http://www.belowtopsecret.com/viewthread.php?tid=37668)
Faulty Evidence: The Case Against Lee Harvey Oswald (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread48402/pg1)
Altering Zapruder's Film (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread73494/pg1)

[/ QUOTE ]

Lotta the stuff on this site is just plain dumb. I'm a conspiracy believer, but this guys talk about the zapruder film being doctored and such is just stupid.

[-Syk-]

[ QUOTE ]
Lotta the stuff on this site is just plain dumb. I'm a conspiracy believer, but this guys talk about the zapruder film being doctored and such is just stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that your rebuttal to it? You have no evidence to debunk this theory? I'm not saying I believe everything the guy says, but he puts forth his arguments in an intelligent manner with facts & links to corroborate his theories.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lotta the stuff on this site is just plain dumb. I'm a conspiracy believer, but this guys talk about the zapruder film being doctored and such is just stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that your rebuttal to it? You have no evidence to debunk this theory? I'm not saying I believe everything the guy says, but he puts forth his arguments in an intelligent manner with facts & links to corroborate his theories.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, the first part, where he says the guys leg flips back at an awkward position and way too quickly;
A: he was diving semi-sideways towards the ground.
B: Yes, his leg COULD have whipped back in 1/16th of a second.

With regards to the child "appearing" beside his father within one half second;
A. He was likely running from the other side of him.
B. His leg movements appear consistent with running.

Which leads to my next queries;

What would these descrepancies accomplish for anyone trying to show a single gunman?
Was the technology to fake some of the video even available then?

Much of a Tool fan as I am, and conspiracy subcriber, this guy sounds like a nut. A well-studied and thorough nut, but a nut nonetheless.

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm interested in seeing how he thinks LHO got off those shots with that rifle and got such good hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

PVT JOKER: Sir, in the Marines, sir!

GUNNY HARTMAN: In the Marines! Outstanding!

(PVT SNOWBALL: Sir, it was pretty far. From that book suppository building!)

[JoeC]

Give me a break... go read "Mortal Error" by Bonar Menninger. It basically points out all the misconceptions about the magic bullet, and why it wasn't as remarkable as some make it out to be... then, it goes on to state why Oswald STILL couldn't have done it.

The book's conclusion is pretty out-there, but it's still a good read... check it out.

Also, it doesn't bother you that this reviewer seems to pretty much take Gerald Posner's word as bond? (at least on his list of "recommended books)

That guy's book has been roundly denounced as garbage from every source I've seen.

[JoeC]

And please just tell me this: if he's getting shot from the back, how come his head thrushes BACK instead of forward in the film?

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
And please just tell me this: if he's getting shot from the back, how come his head thrushes BACK instead of forward in the film?

[/ QUOTE ]

This was explained many times in the special the OP was talking about. I'm sorry to inform you that I can't remember the explanation, but it convinced me.

Btw, convincing me not to believe conspiracy theories is a tough thing to do.

[nongice626]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And please just tell me this: if he's getting shot from the back, how come his head thrushes BACK instead of forward in the film?

[/ QUOTE ]

This was explained many times in the special the OP was talking about. I'm sorry to inform you that I can't remember the explanation, but it convinced me.

Btw, convincing me not to believe conspiracy theories is a tough thing to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

back brace from a 'fvcking' accident or when his row boat caught fire.

[-Syk-]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lotta the stuff on this site is just plain dumb. I'm a conspiracy believer, but this guys talk about the zapruder film being doctored and such is just stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that your rebuttal to it? You have no evidence to debunk this theory? I'm not saying I believe everything the guy says, but he puts forth his arguments in an intelligent manner with facts & links to corroborate his theories.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, the first part, where he says the guys leg flips back at an awkward position and way too quickly;
A: he was diving semi-sideways towards the ground.
B: Yes, his leg COULD have whipped back in 1/16th of a second.

With regards to the child "appearing" beside his father within one half second;
A. He was likely running from the other side of him.
B. His leg movements appear consistent with running.

Which leads to my next queries;

What would these descrepancies accomplish for anyone trying to show a single gunman?
Was the technology to fake some of the video even available then?

Much of a Tool fan as I am, and conspiracy subcriber, this guy sounds like a nut. A well-studied and thorough nut, but a nut nonetheless.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should register and post your questions for him. & I thought they proved a head could jerk any direction with a blast like that due to a natural reaction in the body. Nerves or something. Not to keen on the subject.

[nongice626]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lotta the stuff on this site is just plain dumb. I'm a conspiracy believer, but this guys talk about the zapruder film being doctored and such is just stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that your rebuttal to it? You have no evidence to debunk this theory? I'm not saying I believe everything the guy says, but he puts forth his arguments in an intelligent manner with facts & links to corroborate his theories.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, the first part, where he says the guys leg flips back at an awkward position and way too quickly;
A: he was diving semi-sideways towards the ground.
B: Yes, his leg COULD have whipped back in 1/16th of a second.

With regards to the child "appearing" beside his father within one half second;
A. He was likely running from the other side of him.
B. His leg movements appear consistent with running.

Which leads to my next queries;

What would these descrepancies accomplish for anyone trying to show a single gunman?
Was the technology to fake some of the video even available then?

Much of a Tool fan as I am, and conspiracy subcriber, this guy sounds like a nut. A well-studied and thorough nut, but a nut nonetheless.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should register and post your questions for him. & I thought they proved a head could jerk any direction with a blast like that due to a natural reaction in the body. Nerves or something. Not to keen on the subject.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but do all these coulds really debunk anything?

A man "could" hold onto his hat with a shattered wrist.

[-Syk-]

You can't officially debunk something if someone isn't willing to accept your stance on the theory, so I guess they can't technically debunked for everybody. My point was, he should post these to the author of the links I gave just for a good debate. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
A year or two ago, some channel (I can't remember which) ran a special showing the dynamics of the magic bullet based on computer simulations and such. Basically, it confirmed that Oswald killed Kennedy and from the exact window that has been rumored.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not the best way to prove it and in fact it didn't prove anything. Do you actually know what the best way to prove it is i.e. what would actually constitute "proof" in a court of law lets say? Once you realize what constitutes "proof" and start going along that route there's no way the government ever convicts Oswald in a court of law, you'll find the Warren Commission was a totally botched investigation, and that Oswald almost certainly had U.S. government espionage training.

BTW why would Ruby kill Oswald? Another lone nut? hehe. Even as a naive 13 year old in an era that is much different from today's where people were much more trusting of their government I had a hard time believing that Ruby would kill Oswald for the reasons that were given (he was distraught over the effect they had on Jackie). Sadly the most sinister and outragous crime that I have ever witnessed in my lifetime has been trivialized to the point where people really don't care anymore and make a half assed effort to understand the case and it's circumstances. This is exactly the outcome that the powers that be that were behind the assassination wanted and they got it.

[-Syk-]

[ QUOTE ]
Not the best way to prove it and in fact it didn't prove anything. Do you actually know what the best way to prove it is? Once you realize what constitutes "proof" and start going along that route there's no way the government ever convicts Oswald in a court of law, you'll find the Warren Commission was a totally botched investigation, and that Oswald almost certainly had U.S. government espionage training.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah.

Also, why are people reccomending Mortal Error? Doesn't the author claim a secret service agent accidentally shot Kennedy?

[Jake (The Snake)]

well I'm glad that settled everything /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Jake (The Snake)]

http://ourworld-top.cs.com/mikegriffith1/abcjfk.htm

[adios]

I'm going to assume that you meant to answer my post. You still haven't addressed the issue of what would actually prove or disprove the single bullet theory beyond any reasonable doubt. Hint what forensic evidence would accomplish this?

[Jake (The Snake)]

With all the different takes on it now, i suppose proving it to everybody is impossible. Prove was the wrong word, though I think the evidence was quite powerful.

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
With all the different takes on it now, i suppose proving it to everybody is impossible. Prove was the wrong word, though I think the evidence was quite powerful

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not there is a right answer to my question regarding the forensic evidence but you can side step it if you like. What evidence was so strong?

[Jake (The Snake)]

I'm sorry... I didn't read your post correctly.

The evidence they used in the program was based mostly on angles and how the bullet supposively traveled.

As for forensic evidence that would prove it... I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for.

[-Syk-]

http://img213.exs.cx/img213/9260/wink9do.jpg

Congressman Albert Thomas winking at LBJ as Jackie cries.

[adios]

The body of the president shows entrance and exit wounds as well as bulltet trajectories. I have never seen a Warren Commission apologist hold up the autopsy on Kennedy as a shining example of proof that the single bullet theory is valid. I've read and heard more than a few forensic pathologists condemn the autopsy. There's a reason for that it's because autopsy was totally botched. First of all it was performed by 3 doctors who were forensic pathologists but had very little experience in performing autopsies. They functioned in an executive role as administrators at Bethesda Naval Hospital. The autopsy was performed on the Friday night Kennedy was shot. I'll go into more detail later but on the next day, Saturday, the head doctor conducting the autopsy called the doctors who initially treated Kennedy in the emergency room is Dallas. After talking to the doctors in Dallas, the head doctor conducting the autopsy realized he had made a terrible mistake. He had failed to account for the throat wound on Kennedy i.e. he totally missed it (the throat wound was supposedly caused by the magic bullet). What followed is unconcienable in my mind. He threw out the autopsy report that he had prepared from Friday night, prepared a new one, and burned his notes and autopsy from Friday night. It gets better. The doctors at Parkland hospital in Dallas that treated Kennedy stated that the throat wound was an entry wound, it came from in front of Kennedy. The doctors stated so in a press conferance on the Friday Kennedy was shot. I've seen films of the press conferance myself. At the time it was televised for all to see. The head autopsy doctor stated in his autopsy report that the throat wound was an exit wound. You know the wound he completely missed on Friday when Kennedy's body was examined.

[J_V]

There is an essay "Oswald, killed Kennedy alone" by Jason Cohen in the 1995 Best essays book. There is no doubt in my mind that there was only one shooter.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
There is an essay "Oswald, killed Kennedy alone" by Jason Cohen in the 1995 Best essays book. There is no doubt in my mind that there was only one shooter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that settles it then.

[JoeC]

Yeah, like I said the conclusion sucked. Read the first half of the book though.. a lot of good analysis before he even starts trying to solve the mystery.