Show me yours and I'll show you mine

[TheAmp]

According to a theorem I once studied in the university, any information has non-negative expectation. therefore, I checked the "muck losing/uncalled hands" option.

We all know how some players show their hands after bluffing. This seems horrible, because it creates a loose table image, which is the opposite of what you need in order to steal the blinds.

The question is should strong hands be shown?

If other players are paying attention, then this strategy gives away information, because they should understand what you are doing, and read you for a probable weak hand when you don't show - valuable information for your oppenents, therefore you lose equity in this case.

How do you balance these contradicting idea's?

Would the buy-in make any difference here, assuming different 'attention rates' in each game?

Very curios...
Amp

[sofere]

IMHO any information you give up is -EV unless you really really know what your doing. Keep in mind that if you show every strong hand you hold, I get a read on how you play with strong hands. But then if you don't show a hand, I'll think that it wasn't that strong a hand, and get a read on how you play marginal hands.

The only time I would ever show a hand is if I was in the BB with AA and it got folded to me. Pity is a wonderful thing /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[tdarko]

IMO advertising seldom works online, there may be 1 person that saw you show your cards (your opponent in the hand) because so many people are preoccupied by phone calls, internet, movie, laundry, porn, or even more tables. i think auto muck is +EV. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[BigDave]

I made a rule to show only when I have something like 4 of a kind, royal or straight flush, or some ridiculous hand that will not occur again during the game.

I see no benefit showing strong hands or bluffs. Like others, I just think you are giving up more information then you should.

I broke the rule for the first time last night though. This one made me laugh a little, the power of FE and the gap concept at its finest:

***** Hand History for Game 1593998104 *****
NL Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:9580553 Level:5 Blinds(100/200) - Tuesday, February 15, 04:17:15 EDT 2005
Table Table 11509 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 9: hero ( $670 )
Seat 4: hurlgr ( $3600 )
Seat 2: y_bother ( $3730 )
Trny:9580553 Level:5
Blinds(100/200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to hero [ 4s 2d ]
hero is all-In.
y_bother folds.
hurlgr folds.
hero shows [ 4s, 2d ] high card four.
hero wins 970 chips from the main pot with high card four.

[snapfc01]

i show hands here and there and think it can help. i don't know anyone who would disagree that it's good to have a table image regardless of what it is... you just have to play according to it. if you know what your opponents think you have or how they think you are playing you are one step up... u know how to get the most out of them. i will show bluffs but rarly show big hands... but i love to have everyone think i'm playing loose. first it makes most players think you are just there for action and to have fun.... second as we all know... it gets you action when you have your hands. the mistake i think many make are they show hands then keep playing that way... once you show a bluff or two you need to tighten up... everyone is goign to start calling with weaker hands... and this is where you can bust them when you hit your big ones. just my thoughts

Gerard

[tdarko]

there is merit to what your saying especially in some big live games but online i have just found that people pretty much dont care what you show and thats IF they see you show.
IMO i just don't see how what you are holding is going to affect some goofball who is going to play fishy regardless.
in live games, yes, i like to give off a hyper-loose aggressive image b/c it pays off my big hands /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[snapfc01]

i just know the guy i bluffed remembers and next time i'm in with him i can bust him with a good hand if i bet the exact same. often

[tdarko]

yeah, i mean i understand what your saying i was just debating if it made any difference cause i haven't found that it has. maybe it does work. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[snapfc01]

i'm a new guy to online play and just play the 10+1s now so that could be why it works... and i have noticed that i can often tell if people saw my cards or not b/c they will say something in the lobby if they did. and if they aren't watching then i dont' think i'm losing anything b/c they didn't see them anyways. just my thoughts
Gerard

[spentrent]

I think it just slows down the game. It only seems to have any effect when I'm playing live against my adorably moronic friends who think "you did X last time, you must be doing Y this time."

[snapfc01]

once again probably b/c i play 10s sngs but i've found a lot more fish online then live

[tdarko]

the fish are equal in both internet and live, its just that you see more players online therefore you see more fish--sharks tend to go unnoticed, unless of course they take you money from you.

[snapfc01]

good point

[MonkeeMan]

[ QUOTE ]
and if they aren't watching then i dont' think i'm losing anything b/c they didn't see them anyways.

[/ QUOTE ]

But this seems to indicate that you believe you are losing something if they see them. So why show???

BTW, when people show I always chat with "gh", "nice", "lol", "nb", etc., anything to reinforce them to keep showing.

[Geo]

I'd suggest clicking the Muck losing/uncalled hand to take away any temptation you may have to show. You may show to make a certain point but be giving away a completly different message that you intended.

[TheAmp]

Yeah, I like that Geo. Outsmarting yourself is not the way to go.
You can't make a mistake if you dont show.
Wearing underware is a good idea...

[AtticusFinch]

I'll sometimes show a hand just as I'm about to switch gears. For instance, say I've been stealing a lot, and have built my stack above the 10BB level, and am planning on tightening up some, as 1) I'm nop longer desperate and 2) the likelihood of a call is now higher. I might show an absolute crap hand if it's my last loose steal, adding more value to my next good hand.

Simlarly, if I happen to catch a great hand at the very beginning of push/fold mode, I might show it to possibly extend the time before I get BS called.

In either case, whatever read my opponents get would have worked great 5 hands ago, but is wrong, now.

[Mr_J]

I've been experimenting with this. I don't think most players are really aware enough. I tried showing an early monster to give my raises more respect when I needed it (level 4+), but I think most people have forgotten by then. You'll be raising/pushing so often from level 4 that I think showing them a good hand won't make a difference. They won't believe that everything you raise with is good.

I'm going back to being a non-shower.

[raptor517]

the only time to show in my mind is when i am in a steal situation but i actually have a hand. therefore, i show the hand, AK, QQ, KK, AA, etc, so that the person might not think that i am stealing from him next time. might influence him to lay down something like A9 or something he might have otherwise called with.

[TheAmp]

[ QUOTE ]
the only time to show in my mind is when i am in a steal situation but i actually have a hand. therefore, i show the hand, AK, QQ, KK, AA, etc, so that the person might not think that i am stealing from him next time. might influence him to lay down something like A9 or something he might have otherwise called with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting thought Raptor.
Its like saying "Peace man...I had to push, see?".
There seems to be some spots in SNG's where you don't know if you want to be called - even with a strong hand... and you sure dont want to get on BB's nurves.

[snapfc01]

no my point of your not losing anything was to all the others saying you do lose something... i believe you gain anytime an opponent thinks you play a curtain way and you know he thinks that

[snapfc01]

that's exactly how i try to use it... i never do it and countinue playing that way...

[snapfc01]

i never show good hands for that reason... i only show to get my opponents to loosen up. for example i'm a chip in good chip position and we are on the bubble... i will show a pure bluff because i will not be in a position where i need to steal blinds so i can do this then wait for a big hand and if i get lucky and hit a huge hand in the next ten hands i'm gonna get paid off. i agree... if you show a big hand one in ten all ins everyone thinks you had [censored] the other 9... but when u make that big bluff with nothing i've noticed may remember (especially the guy you bought the pot from) and i have done this then got someone who was playing like a rock to call an all in preflop with something like AJo... maybe it's different players. (a play at stars and i know a lot of you guys play on party...) but this play has worked for me.

[snapfc01]

i think the problem with this is when u do it next time and don't show he thinks u had [censored] because u didn't show

[The once and future king]

I like to show my hand occasionaly when it is a strong hand.

If I have been stealing alot of blinds, and I actualy raise in the cutoff or Sb with a good hand I like to show, as in to say look, I know ive been raising alot but I aint been Bsing you.

Sometimes I show if I think it will help tilt an oppononent.
Auto muck is to inflexible.