Moving up, whats my incentive?

[Accident]

With my goal being to increase my bank roll, whats my incentive for leaving a 3/6 game w/fish raking in $50 hour to go to a higher limit game like 10/20 that pays 1.5 big bets an hour, provided I'm good enough to play at that level. Or, are the 10/20 games just as lucrative?
Accident /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Shang Chou]

I am in the same boat as you basically. I usually play 2/4 or 3/6 online but everyonce in a while I will do the 10/20 6 max or 15/30 full tables at Party. I think game selection is really what matters most here. Sometimes you get lucky and find a 10/20 game that is easier than the 1/2 games. Other times I have been playing 3/6 and see like 3 names that I recognize from 2+2 and the rest of the table is like 22/8 vpip/pfr type players.

Swings can also be bigger and less friendly at the higher limits too. I recently had a day where I had a 1500 dollar swing which is definitely a little too extreme for me. Good luck with that though. Later.

[Shang Chou]

50 an hour at 3/6 is probably not sustainable. Just so you know. I had a similar thing where I was banging out something like 6 or 7 BB/100 hands for a 2000 hands or so. Eventually it all evens out and I am at a little over 2 BB/100 now.

[Benjamin]

[ QUOTE ]
With my goal being to increase my bank roll, whats my incentive for leaving a 3/6 game w/fish raking in $50 hour to go to a higher limit game like 10/20 that pays 1.5 big bets an hour, provided I'm good enough to play at that level. Or, are the 10/20 games just as lucrative?
Accident

[/ QUOTE ]

Higher limits = more money if you can beat them. What more incentive do you need?

B.

[rwinns]

Well stated Benjamin. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Accident]

I forgot to specify, bad players at B&M in Vegas. Live play only.
Thanx for the replies.
A /images/graemlins/club.gif

[sammy_g]

You're not actually making $50/hr. No one can at 3/6 (playing live).

[surfdoc]

Lets see. Over 8 BB/hr and a brutal rake. That is nothing short of amazing. In fact, it is beyond amazing. It is incomprehensibe.

[bicyclekick]

you're not making 50/hour playing 3/6. you may be over a short sample, but there is no way that's your true winrate.

[Dave Mac]

why? 3bb/100, 300 hands an hour is 54. i mean even at 2.5 it is still 45 an hour.
dave

[surfdoc]

he said he was playing live.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
he said he was playing live.

[/ QUOTE ]

bingo.

[surfdoc]

I was there was a way to get 300 hands/hr against the usual B&M 3/6 players. That would be sweet wouldn't it.

[Shang Chou]

I have only played 3/6 once in my entire life live and that was at the Mirage. Foxwoods only has 2/4, 4/8, 5/10, 10/20 and I have played other limits at other casinos but never another 3/6 game. That said, I made like 450 bucks in about 2 hours at the 3/6 game so my hourly rate is something like $225 per hour. If I move up to 30/60 can I make $2250 an hour? Cuz that would be really sweet.

[lil feller]

I sincerely hope you're kidding...

lf

[surfdoc]

I remember this one time, at band camp....

[lil feller]

you promised you wouldn't tell...

/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[34TheTruth34]

if you can make 8.3 BB/hr at 3/6, you could probably make 4 or 5 at 10/20, thus doubling your hourly expectation. Give it a shot and let us know how it goes.

Go ahead and move up...
I make 8 BB/Hour live playing mostly 100/200

$1,600/hour, let me know when you can top the champ!

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Go ahead and move up...
I make 8 BB/Hour live playing mostly 100/200

$1,600/hour, let me know when you can top the champ!

[/ QUOTE ]

oh my god...

it finally happened...

people now think they can impersonate him on the boards which greg's been on for years...

good lord.

-Barron

[slavic]

Next thing you know somebody will register

Ed "NPA" Miller

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
50 an hour at 3/6 is probably not sustainable.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have a rake rebate, you don't have to be a world-class player to make $50 per hour playing 3/6 online.

[The Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
50 an hour at 3/6 is probably not sustainable.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have a rake rebate, you don't have to be a world-class player to make $50 per hour playing 3/6 online.

[/ QUOTE ]

You dont even have to be all that good /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Accident]

For all those who didnt insinuate that I am a lier. I have decided to move up to 5/10 the next time I'm in vegas. My bankroll is plenty big enough now. (started w/$40) And by the way, I'm not interested in 'sustaining' that kind of profit at a 3/6. I was simply using that as an example of how good a table can be. It seems to be the norm in Vegas more than a rarity based on my very limited time there. I am by no means making a statement of how good or bad my play is. I would never do that in this sea of critics. If all the players at the upper levels are 'grinding' out 1 BB per hour they are probably better card players than me. I dont need that kind of play when I'm in vegas for 3 days. I need the players that stay to the end because they have big egos or they just like to gamble. I strive to take my ego out of the game until after I'm done playing, then, I can gloat to myself later about that great hand, etc. That answer about "bigger stakes = more money, Nuff said", is ridiculous. Doesnt address my question at all.
There may not be an answer other than to play at a level I'm comfortable at that is still loaded with loose, uneducated players.
Accident /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Accident]

[ QUOTE ]
You're not actually making $50/hr. No one can at 3/6 (playing live).

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe my math was off. I bought $100 in chips and cashed in $250 in chips after 3 hours. That doesnt count drink tips and dealer tips. I'm amazed that you remember me at that table at the Aladin that particular afternoon. Are you the Asian lady that was managing the poker room that day? Do you remember exaclty how many chips I cashed out, maybe I am mistaken.
A /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Accident]

I mean seriously, you 'experts' have never seen 3 idiots chase cards all the way to the river? Jeeze, doesnt take a rocket scientist to take money from a table like that. I'm beginning to doubt that some of these guys know anything about vegas. Maybe they are just poker forum hounds?
A /images/graemlins/club.gif

[riffraff]

You don't think your sample size is a bit small?

[na4bart]

My experience with the middle limit games in Las Vegas is that in general the locals are playing not to lose, the games are quite beatable. Easier than the SoCal games I normally play in. Which is another way of saying, bigger limits = bigger returns.

[Jules22]

that sounds like a christmas special, like frosty coming to life. just beautiful man

[Michael Davis]

You can't beat a 10-20 game for 1.5 big bets per hour.

I would stick to the 3-6. You'll lose less there.

-Michael

[JohnnyHumongous]

Sounds like you had your mind made up long ago, and decided to pick a fight on this board over it.

[ QUOTE ]
For all those who didnt insinuate that I am a lier. I have decided to move up to 5/10 the next time I'm in vegas. My bankroll is plenty big enough now. (started w/$40) And by the way, I'm not interested in 'sustaining' that kind of profit at a 3/6. I was simply using that as an example of how good a table can be. It seems to be the norm in Vegas more than a rarity based on my very limited time there. I am by no means making a statement of how good or bad my play is. I would never do that in this sea of critics. If all the players at the upper levels are 'grinding' out 1 BB per hour they are probably better card players than me. I dont need that kind of play when I'm in vegas for 3 days. I need the players that stay to the end because they have big egos or they just like to gamble. I strive to take my ego out of the game until after I'm done playing, then, I can gloat to myself later about that great hand, etc. That answer about "bigger stakes = more money, Nuff said", is ridiculous. Doesnt address my question at all.
There may not be an answer other than to play at a level I'm comfortable at that is still loaded with loose, uneducated players.
Accident /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

[CardSharpCook]

It is amazing how much time we have wasted with this player. We all know his claims are "true" but amatuerish, but we're treating this like a... "serious" (for lack of a better word) post.

Of course I mean no offense to the poster, though I'm sure it doesn't sound like that.

My problem with these low limit tables (or tables that play like low limit tables) is that the variance is so high. Sure, you made 30BB today, but you'll lose 35BB tomorrow. Hell, my variance at 15-30 is insane . But it is even higher at tables that are ripe.

My point? Fish are so frustrating not because they give you money hand over fist, but because they can and will win much more than you in the short run. And when you sit with fish, your variance is higher, though your long term winnings are also higher.

Anyway, good luck to you, Accident.

CSC

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're not actually making $50/hr. No one can at 3/6 (playing live).

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe my math was off. I bought $100 in chips and cashed in $250 in chips after 3 hours. That doesnt count drink tips and dealer tips.

[/ QUOTE ]

$250-100 = $150 profit.

$150/3hr = $50/hr.

Sure looks like $50/hr to me. In fact, your true hourly rate is even higher than that, since you used your poker chips for tipping. Looks like a lot of jealousy on this board from the higher limit players grinding out 1bb/hr.

To answer your question, $10/20 looks like it would probably be a paycut for you unless you found an amazingly easy game. Might want to try $30/60, though. If you make just 1bb/hr there, you'll make $60/hr - that $10/hr adds up over time.

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're not actually making $50/hr. No one can at 3/6 (playing live).

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe my math was off. I bought $100 in chips and cashed in $250 in chips after 3 hours. That doesnt count drink tips and dealer tips.

[/ QUOTE ]


Once again, Diablo clears everything up. Thanks El Diablo I really didn't see the whole tip thing before.
$250-100 = $150 profit.

$150/3hr = $50/hr.

Sure looks like $50/hr to me. In fact, your true hourly rate is even higher than that, since you used your poker chips for tipping. Looks like a lot of jealousy on this board from the higher limit players grinding out 1bb/hr.

To answer your question, $10/20 looks like it would probably be a paycut for you unless you found an amazingly easy game. Might want to try $30/60, though. If you make just 1bb/hr there, you'll make $60/hr - that $10/hr adds up over time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Diablo for providing clarity in this matter. My jealousy really clouded my judgement and I didn't factor in the whole tip thing.

[Accident]

[ QUOTE ]
It is amazing how much time we have wasted with this player. We all know his claims are "true" but amatuerish, but we're treating this like a... "serious" (for lack of a better word) post.

Of course I mean no offense to the poster, though I'm sure it doesn't sound like that.

My problem with these low limit tables (or tables that play like low limit tables) is that the variance is so high. Sure, you made 30BB today, but you'll lose 35BB tomorrow. Hell, my variance at 15-30 is insane . But it is even higher at tables that are ripe.

My point? Fish are so frustrating not because they give you money hand over fist, but because they can and will win much more than you in the short run. And when you sit with fish, your variance is higher, though your long term winnings are also higher.

Anyway, good luck to you, Accident.

CSC

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that 1st part is an insult. But the 2nd part is exactly what I was fishing for. It's how I feel about the 2/4 tables, but I didnt want to cloud the discussion w/my own conclusions. I wasn't trying to instigate anything. I was suprised at some of the insults cast my way for asking a simple question. A tad elitest. Thanx for the encouragement from everyone however. I especially love the remark about how I can't play at a 10/20. I only have one critic that I listen too now. It's my bankroll. Started with 40 and now have 1500. Paid for 2 trips to vegas too. No adding, and havnt gone broke yet. I dont count tips either. It dictates what level I play at. I move up as it gets bigger, just like some book said. Maybe Doyle's. I just wonder if you guys are as good as you claim with such huge variance. How can you sustain a bankroll w/out adding to it constantly with 'real world' money like from an inheritance or a job? The most I've lost in one session was $200 at a 4/8. I was there 4 hours. I played really badly at the Mandalay bay. I felt crushed. But it's nowhere near 35BB an hour. When a table is really fishy, I revert back to the Sklansky,Malmuth, Miller book "Small Stakes Holdem". Since reading that one, I adjust my play to the players. No more loses. Those guys really have good advice.

Accident /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Accident]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't think your sample size is a bit small?

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course it is. But thats all I have. Vegas is 5 hours in airports and planes away. I should have clarified that I only get there 4 or 5 times a year.
Accident /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Accident]

[ QUOTE ]
You can't beat a 10-20 game for 1.5 big bets per hour.

I would stick to the 3-6. You'll lose less there.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I havent lost ANYTHING there, but thanx for the advice.
A /images/graemlins/club.gif

[hogger]

This is one of my favorit threads yet! Way 2funny! I know you won't take my advice but your sample is way to small!
You can be the best player in the world - you will not pound a table of fish every day like you are assuming!
Any way GL 2 U!