Seek and destroy, a strategy?

[Kaz The Original]

I wonder if one couldn't, using poker tracker datamining of course, simply seek out preflop maniacs (80% VPIP, 30% preflop raise, 20% preflop all in (haha poker tracker needs a category for this if it doesn't have one)), find tables with them via buddy function, and play the preflop game with them.

It would seem to be a very simply, hugely effective system.

Thoughts?

[istewart]

Send an email to Lee Jones and have him make a "preflop maniacs leaderboard."

[xorbie]

The problem with maniacs is you have to be so patient, so it would help to multitable with about 6 of them and just wait for QQ, KK, AA, AKs.

[Kaz The Original]

"
The problem with maniacs is you have to be so patient, so it would help to multitable with about 6 of them and just wait for QQ, KK, AA, AKs."

If a maniac is getting it all in once every 5 hands, I'm taking him on with A10+.

[TheWorstPlayer]

I'd rather play poker.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd rather play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?

[xorbie]

As opposed to a craphsoot.

And yeah, if a maniac is getting all in 1 in 5, and you have the bankroll, A10 is fine. But most maniacs aren't *that* maniac.

[Benal]

That's all fine and good, but have fun getting a seat at this table, or even finding them off your buddy list. Most fish I have on my list have smartened up and checked the "hide me from search" box.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd rather play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?

[/ QUOTE ]
This isn't poker. It doesn't take any poker skills. It doesn't develop any poker knowledge. It is just a system, which perhaps will make money, but is quite boring and won't make as much money as other boring things you can do (like working at McDonald's).

[istewart]

I declare Cola pwnt.

[istewart]

Still, a lot of this is the basis of PT. It can easily be argued PT isn't poker. I don't personally think so.

[TheWorstPlayer]

PT doesn't take anything away from poker. PT is just used in place of physical reads which are unavailable online and it is used to allow multi-tabling where minimal attention can be paid to each table. You still have to use that information in order to make the correct poker play. When the range of possible plays are just fold preflop and push preflop, that is not poker (in my opinion). And I didn't mean to insult Cola at all, just to explain my "I would rather play poker" comment. Playing a short stack can certainly be profitable and at the higher stakes if you can handle a short stack well you can definitely make a lot of money by buying in short if people don't properly adjust to your stack size. But at low stakes, it seems to me that the point should be to learn how to play poker well and doing some strategy like this just doesn't seem to be helping to move in that direction. Just my POV.

[warlockjd]

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if one couldn't, using poker tracker datamining of course, simply seek out preflop maniacs (80% VPIP, 30% preflop raise, 20% preflop all in (haha poker tracker needs a category for this if it doesn't have one)), find tables with them via buddy function, and play the preflop game with

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a feeling that there are quite a few people that make a living doing this. The ones I have encountered are winning players with major leaks, but I think this overall strategy is very sound.

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with maniacs is you have to be so patient, so it would help to multitable with about 6 of them and just wait for QQ, KK, AA, AKs.


[/ QUOTE ]

You are leaving a lot of money on the table playing this tight.

[ QUOTE ]
If a maniac is getting it all in once every 5 hands, I'm taking him on with A10+.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. 99+?

[ QUOTE ]
I'd rather play poker.


[/ QUOTE ]

There are many winning NL styles that all qualify as 'poker.' This is one of those IMO.

[ QUOTE ]
And yeah, if a maniac is getting all in 1 in 5, and you have the bankroll, A10 is fine. But most maniacs aren't *that* maniac.


[/ QUOTE ]

Um, yes they are. And if you're not properly bankrolled, you should be playing at a lower limit. One idea related to being properly bankrolled is that you push any edge, even a small one, and your roll is large enough to handle the swings. And playing against a maniac is a HUGE edge.

[ QUOTE ]
This isn't poker. It doesn't take any poker skills. It doesn't develop any poker knowledge. It is just a system, which perhaps will make money, but is quite boring and won't make as much money as other boring things you can do (like working at McDonald's).


[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. I'm speechless. Although I don't exclusively employ a maniac-seeking strategy, I do employ it. I'd say it's worth $1k a week to me when I put in 40 yrs (edit HOURS). Beats corp accouting, my former hell, heh.

[ QUOTE ]
PT doesn't take anything away from poker. PT is just used in place of physical reads which are unavailable online and it is used to allow multi-tabling where minimal attention can be paid to each table. You still have to use that information in order to make the correct poker play. When the range of possible plays are just fold preflop and push preflop, that is not poker (in my opinion). And I didn't mean to insult Cola at all, just to explain my "I would rather play poker" comment. Playing a short stack can certainly be profitable and at the higher stakes if you can handle a short stack well you can definitely make a lot of money by buying in short if people don't properly adjust to your stack size. But at low stakes, it seems to me that the point should be to learn how to play poker well and doing some strategy like this just doesn't seem to be helping to move in that direction. Just my POV.


[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, good description.

Seems like a lot of 'poker snobs' on this thread. I could be just misreading their slant.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This isn't poker. It doesn't take any poker skills. It doesn't develop any poker knowledge. It is just a system, which perhaps will make money, but is quite boring and won't make as much money as other boring things you can do (like working at McDonald's).


[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. I'm speechless. Although I don't exclusively employ a maniac-seeking strategy, I do employ it. I'd say it's worth $1k a week to me when I put in 40 hours. Beats corp accouting, my former hell, heh.


[/ QUOTE ]
If you are a pro and are playing only to make money, then I agree this can be a profitable strategy. I certainly would agree that my POV is very reflective of the fact that I play for enjoyment and solely as a hobby and that my goal, therefore, is to work on my game and move up in limits and not to maximize my EV at small stakes.
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
PT doesn't take anything away from poker. PT is just used in place of physical reads which are unavailable online and it is used to allow multi-tabling where minimal attention can be paid to each table. You still have to use that information in order to make the correct poker play. When the range of possible plays are just fold preflop and push preflop, that is not poker (in my opinion). And I didn't mean to insult Cola at all, just to explain my "I would rather play poker" comment. Playing a short stack can certainly be profitable and at the higher stakes if you can handle a short stack well you can definitely make a lot of money by buying in short if people don't properly adjust to your stack size. But at low stakes, it seems to me that the point should be to learn how to play poker well and doing some strategy like this just doesn't seem to be helping to move in that direction. Just my POV.


[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, good description.

Seems like a lot of 'poker snobs' on this thread. I could be just misreading their slant.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hopefully you were not lumping me in as a 'poker snob', but if you were, I think it is because you were misreading my slant. I think if you read the paragraph that you quoted above and agreed with you will see that I agree that your POV is valid, but that from my perspective of using SSNL to improve my game in order to play higher stakes that this strategy is not worthwhile.

[warlockjd]

I didn't mean you man.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Oh. Now I look like a defensive nit. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[swolfe]

i use the bomb icon for them when autorating.

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]

It would seem to be a very simply, hugely effective system.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

i disagree.

1. this restricts you to lower limits and therefore lowr earn rates
2. your overlay as a good player increases on each subsequent street as you understand the hand better than your opponent
3. preflop overlays are not that big, esp ones like 44 against AT with dead money are TINY bits of EV with HUGE variance.
4. postflop overlays and turn overlays are huge. mot often when i stack someone, they are drawing dead or very, very slim when the money goes in.
5. the best EV in poker is river betting. the loser is always drawing dead.

Pro's hate people who play the "all-in or fold" game with them preflop at the WSOP because it so deeply cuts into their overlay. playing solid poker on all streets wll not only make you a better player, but it will make you better money.

fim