pocket jacks facing limp reraise cap

[mr pink]

bodog 3/6

i'm dealt J /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif on the CO

utg limps, folded to the hijack who raises his last bets and is all in preflop, i 3-bet, folded to utg who limp/caps...

flop: 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif heads up, 11 small bets

utg bets, hero ????

contemplates between raising and calling down...

(no read on the villain)

[Alexthegreat]

How much do you know about this guy?? Against an unknown I would call the flop and turn, and throw in a river raise, just in case he's abusing AK/AQ or some other PP....

If he is very tight postflop and bets a turn blank, I'm calling the river, expecting to be shown QQ-AA

[mr pink]

just edited, it was only my first orbit at the table

[Alexthegreat]

Call down then....can you PM me the results??

[billyjex]

An UTG limp reraise can mean AA or KK alot, but not nearly enough to not throw in a raise on the flop. I'd call down a 3-bet.

I've seen some real trash limp-capped. I think a limp 3-bet is much more to worry about.

[djoyce003]

A limp reraise means AA-KK-AK most of the time. I used to see generally just AA or KK limp reraised, but it seems like the limp reraise with AK is becoming more common, and some true maniacs i've seen have limp reraised with much worse. I think the general standard line here is the call down. A raise will likely make him fold a bad hand, and if he's got AA or KK he will just reraise you and you'll lose more. The call down is the general win the most/lose the least play of your options here. I don't think you fold an overpair here as you beat at least some of the hands he might have limp reraised with.

[Willluck]

I would call down.

[mistrpug]

Raise the flop. You have a pretty good chance of having the best hand. I see just as many people who limp re-raise for the heck with AJ or some garbage as do it with mosters. If you're raised, call down. If you're called, bet the turn. Same line on the turn.

[BigEndian]

I give this 50/50 to be real hand or a fuckitcap. Raise the flop, slow down if 3-bet.

- Jim

[Milky]

Agreed. I've seen people limp-rr all sorts of hands so I don't automatically give someone credit for a monster just because they do this.

[mr pink]

i'm dealt J /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif on the CO

utg limps, folded to the hijack who raises his last bets and is all in preflop, i 3-bet, folded to utg who limp/caps...

flop: 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif heads up, 11 small bets

utg bets, hero calls.

turn: 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

utg bets, hero calls.

river: J /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/shocked.gif uhh ohh

utg bets, hero raises, utg calls.


villain actually did have KK...


i think the call down line is best here even if he has AK or some other random crap and you're ahead on the flop.


-- with an overpair, i think he would have either:

A. 3-bet me on the flop and i would have still called down, losing 1 BB (unless i spike a jack)

B. he calls the flop raise then check/raises the turn - which would suck b/c i'd probably want to fold around this point

-- if he's only got AK or some other random crap hand:

raising the flop against AK loses 1 small bet when he calls the raise and spikes one of his 6 outs on the turn or river - probably losing more if he gets in a turn check/raise.

also a raise might get him to back off if he's bluffing w/ AK or whatever, and cost you a BB somewhere along the line.

i think calling down here against an unknown is far superior to raising at any point. did i miss anything here?

[Octopus]

[ QUOTE ]
A limp reraise means AA-KK-AK most of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Less often than you think. I have found that only about 40% of the limp-reraises WHERE I SEE THE CARDS are AA, KK, QQ, AKs, or AKo. I assume I see the cards with those hands more often than others. (Obviously, I don't have any stats on limp-caps.)

[frank_iii]

I agree that a limp-reraise often means junk, but an open-limp in late-middle or late position followed up with a re-raise has ONLY been AA in my limited experience. That's not the case here, though, since he's UTG.

When a 50/20 guy open-limps in late position, I tread lightly. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[BigEndian]

If it's a fuckitcap guy, he isn't going to fold his tent because you raise the flop. More likely he'll go to the river and call even then with any part of the board.

- Jim

[billyjex]

[ QUOTE ]
If it's a fuckitcap guy, he isn't going to fold his tent because you raise the flop. More likely he'll go to the river and call even then with any part of the board.

- Jim

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I think alot of people are missing the fact he limp-CAPPED. People will do this with any pair, any suited connector, a decent amount of the time just to do it I guess. He knows there can be no further betting and he's going to play anyways, so..

[Rafael_Luiz]

A raise on the flop is needed to figure out where you are in the hand. If reraised, just call down. Possibly he has a low pocket pair and feels more comfortable knowing the late betting rounds will be heads up, hence explaining the limp-cap.

[mr pink]

ok say i raise the flop, he calls... do you now know if he has AA, KK or rags?

after he calls the flop bet, and checks the turn... i assume you bet? now he check/raises. see where this is going?

[meep_42]

Isn't this a way ahead/way behind situation?

Either limp/cap has AA/KK and you killed, or he has AK or random trash that you want to keep betting.

I say call the flop and turn (because I'd have to fold to a 3-bet, even a semi-bluff) and a blank river. Raising the J is correct. Bet if checked to and call down a c/r on the turn/river.

-d