Ethics Moral Question about delayed test

[gamblore99]

I was supposed to have a test today for my cognition class. There was a massive line to get inside and i decided to sit on the bench and do some last minute review. I end up being the last person in line. So as me and the last 3 other people are about to get in, the proffessor comes out and says they ran out of tests. Apparently more people were writing the test then were actually enrolled in the course. SHe was really embarrassed and was really easy about when we could write it. I'm writing it tommorow at 9:30. One of us asked if the test we would write would be harder or different and to our surprise she said it was going to be exactly the same test, with order switched around.

Questions: Is it unethical to talk to people in class and try to get an edge. Is it immoral? Would you do it?

[istewart]

It depends what your goals are.

Yes, I believe it is very unethical. Yes, I would probably do it -- for most classes.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
It depends what your goals are.

Yes, I believe it is very unethical. Yes, I would probably do it -- for most classes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not some fgt that believes in karma or any of that jazz, but you might be pretty pissed if you went about this elaborate cheat scheme and the next day the test was different. Worst case scenario.

[gamblore99]

No I already know the material almost inside out. But the course is pretty tough. I would expect asking around to get me 1 or 2 more marks maximum. (its out of 30 multiple choice).

[Voltron87]

It's unethical. I would do it for some classes and pass on the opportunity in others. If it was something I wasn't very good at and I wouldn't get caught I'd do it. Though une thing I get pissed at is when other kids cheat at something I'm good at and do well undeservedly. I also get pissed when I suck at something and I miss an opportunity to cheat which everyone else seized and they all have some [censored] eating grin when the tests are handed back. That pisses me off.

[slickpoppa]

You're integrity is one of the few things that you have that no one can take away from you.

[shadow29]

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You're integrity is one of the few things that you have that no one can take away from you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone else said this to me and it was one of the few comments that have had profound impacts upon my life.

As to gamblore's question, this is definetly unethical and in most universities considered cheating.

[jason_t]

It's clearly unethical, and almost surely against your school's academic code. Further, you would probably only gain a small edge and you should not sacrifice your integrity for that.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]


Questions: Is it unethical to talk to people in class and try to get an edge. Is it immoral? Would you do it?

[/ QUOTE ]

if it isnt graded on a curve, then who cares. If it is graded on a curve, then you are [censored] your classmates over if you are the one who could set the curve. If you have no hope of that, then who cares. cheat away.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it unethical to talk to people in class and try to get an edge. Is it immoral?

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the difference, to you, between unethical and immoral?

[girgy44]

Oh wow clearly cheat, you will gain a huge advantage and get a good grade. Don't you wish you hadn't studied now?

[gamblore99]

[ QUOTE ]
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Is it unethical to talk to people in class and try to get an edge. Is it immoral?

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the difference, to you, between unethical and immoral?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not a 100% sure of the distinction, i really should get on that. But I'm pretty sure there is one. For example the diablo GuyOnTilt thing where Diablo used a method within the context of the agreement to win, I would consider that unethical and say that it was GuyOnTilt's fault for being a sucker, whereas I would not say it is immoral. I'm not necessarily sure that is a proper use of the two, but I think its something along those lines. Again, i know not being very clear. ill look into when i get a chance

[DesertCat]

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You're integrity is one of the few things that you have that no one can take away from you.

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It takes a lifetime to build a reputation and one bad decision to lose it...

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
I was supposed to have a test today for my cognition class. There was a massive line to get inside and i decided to sit on the bench and do some last minute review. I end up being the last person in line. So as me and the last 3 other people are about to get in, the proffessor comes out and says they ran out of tests. Apparently more people were writing the test then were actually enrolled in the course. SHe was really embarrassed and was really easy about when we could write it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sweet!

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I'm writing it tommorow at 9:30.


[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you mean PM. I was worthless this early in college.

[ QUOTE ]

One of us asked if the test we would write would be harder or different


[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

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and to our surprise she said it was going to be exactly the same test, with order switched around.


[/ QUOTE ]

See, this is why I don't ask such questions. I think it's easy to assume she's not going to WRITE A WHOLE NEW TEST OVERNIGHT just for 3 people. I'd be asking other testers what kind of questions were on it and perhaps even what they were (although this in and of itself is ethically questionable).

[ QUOTE ]

Questions: Is it unethical to talk to people in class and try to get an edge.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say no until the teacher told you the test would have the exact same questions. She's basically saying, 'you're cheating if you find out what was on this test.' Of course it's unethical. A much more interesting question is would it be okay if she hadn't said anything about the test she'd be giving you? You could logically assume the test would be the same or close to it - is it then wrong to try to find out exactly what questions were asked?

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Is it immoral?


[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm, moral pretty much means the same thing as ethics. There are subtle differences and contextual hints that would make their definitions vary, but here, you're basically asking the same question twice.

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Would you do it?

[/ QUOTE ]

That is of little consequence as you most likely won't do what I'd do 99% of the time b/c you're not me, /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

I wouldn't do it. Now, if a friend happened to tell me 'damn, that test was hard, it was *all* on these 15 pages of the book.' Then I'd study those 15 pages like crazy rather than tell the teacher to make sure she had a new test ready for me. However, I must warn that I took academic honestly very seriously and went to probably the most serious (not personality-wise, /images/graemlins/wink.gif ) academic liberal arts school in the US.

Yugoslav

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
No I already know the material almost inside out. But the course is pretty tough. I would expect asking around to get me 1 or 2 more marks maximum. (its out of 30 multiple choice).

[/ QUOTE ]

The test is multiple choice?!? F-cheating. This class should be a pushover unless the questions are ridiculously obscure and/or do not actually test your learning and/or knowledge.

What kind of cognition class is this?

Yugoslav

[nothumb]

IMHO this is an extremely clear cut case of this being unethical to gain information. Not close.

The difference between ethics and morals is that morals are personally held beliefs, often formed by social/parental factors but ultimately individually determined. Ethics are generally accepted rules for common interactions and situations, or commonly accepted principles to be applied to those situation.

I feel this situation is clearly unethical and morally somewhat meh.

NT

[InchoateHand]

Go drink the bathwater. This is a job for Randy Cohen.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
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Is it unethical to talk to people in class and try to get an edge. Is it immoral?

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the difference, to you, between unethical and immoral?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not a 100% sure of the distinction, i really should get on that. But I'm pretty sure there is one. For example the diablo GuyOnTilt thing where Diablo used a method within the context of the agreement to win, I would consider that unethical and say that it was GuyOnTilt's fault for being a sucker, whereas I would not say it is immoral. I'm not necessarily sure that is a proper use of the two, but I think its something along those lines. Again, i know not being very clear. ill look into when i get a chance

[/ QUOTE ]

You're most likely misusing moral and ethical here in a strict sense of both words.

However it doesn't matter much frankly b/c colloquialy people will attach their own feelings/meanings to these words. The context of each is *much* more important than their strict meaning.

The way you set up your situation I'd say they mean the same thing. However, if they mean different things to you and it's an important distinction then you probably ought to elaborate for anyone to give separate answers to each question.

Yugoslav

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
IMHO this is an extremely clear cut case of this being unethical to gain information. Not close.

The difference between ethics and morals is that morals are personally held beliefs, often formed by social/parental factors but ultimately individually determined. Ethics are generally accepted rules for common interactions and situations, or commonly accepted principles to be applied to those situation.

I feel this situation is clearly unethical and morally somewhat meh.

NT

[/ QUOTE ]

You can interchange your description/definition of morlas and ethics and still be right. They are very close in meaning. I can say that I have a personal ethics. I can also say I have personal morals. Similarly, I can say society has a moral code and an ethical code.

Ethical seems to be the more 'clinical' way to use moral that is slightly more devoid of emotions. Morals and morality is deeply rooted in a subjective idea of right and wrong. If pressed I'd say the difference between them is that morlas are subjective and strongly injected with emotion, while ethics are more objective and injected with logic. This easily could be from my background and usage of the words however. The way you propose using them is fine, /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Yugoslav

[gamblore99]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IMHO this is an extremely clear cut case of this being unethical to gain information. Not close.

The difference between ethics and morals is that morals are personally held beliefs, often formed by social/parental factors but ultimately individually determined. Ethics are generally accepted rules for common interactions and situations, or commonly accepted principles to be applied to those situation.

I feel this situation is clearly unethical and morally somewhat meh.

NT

[/ QUOTE ]

You can interchange your description/definition of morlas and ethics and still be right. They are very close in meaning. I can say that I have a personal ethics. I can also say I have personal morals. Similarly, I can say society has a moral code and an ethical code.

Ethical seems to be the more 'clinical' way to use moral that is slightly more devoid of emotions. Morals and morality is deeply rooted in a subjective idea of right and wrong. If pressed I'd say the difference between them is that morlas are subjective and strongly injected with emotion, while ethics are more objective and injected with logic. This easily could be from my background and usage of the words however. The way you propose using them is fine, /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

good distinction...I think. Anyways, I asked a one or two people how the test was, they said it was fairly easy compared to the first test which was brutal. One didn't remember anything, the other told me one or two broad topics to know. So in summary I did ask around, though really gained nothing for it. But I did PWN the test.

[The Yugoslavian]

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good distinction...I think.


[/ QUOTE ]

So do I, /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

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Anyways, I asked a one or two people how the test was,


[/ QUOTE ]

Were those your exact words, 'how was the test?'?

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they said it was fairly easy compared to the first test which was brutal. One didn't remember anything, the other told me one or two broad topics to know.


[/ QUOTE ]

Did you prompt him to talk about specific questions?

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So in summary I did ask around, though really gained nothing for it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, doing things that are ethically/morally questionable and not even gaining from it *really* doesn't seem worth it, /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

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But I did PWN the test.

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Nice. I told you it'd be an easy test, /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Yugoslav

[gamblore99]

No I asked leading questions and tried to get as much out of them I could. but they didn't really remember

Hmmm, doing things that are ethically/morally questionable and not even gaining from it *really* doesn't seem worth it, .

I don't think this is correct. Under the premise that
1. If i know ahead of time asking will get me a big advantage or small advantage, then they are not unethical in the same way. Asking around with the expectation is getting a bigger advangtage is more unethical then asking around for the small advantage, as i take away more from my fellow students. (i am not saying its dependent on advantage, I am saying it is dependent on expectation of advantage)

2. Knowing I will do something for a price makes me unethical to that degree, regardless of whether I have that oppurtunity to do it or not. If you would kill someone for a million bucks, then your as bad as someone who did.

Basically I think what this amounts to is that some ones morals and ethics are determined by what they are willing to do for a given price, regardless of whether they do it, or if they actually get paid.

[Sponger15SB]

A few years ago I almost stashed my Ethics book in the bathroom trashcan just in case I needed help on the test.

I didn't go through with it only because there was no trash already in the can /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Cya in hell suckers!

[peachy]

ive had similar things happen (3 finals scheduled on one day so under university policy u can switch one, or used to be able to - and they had to give u the SAME final) but i always feel horrible if i even think about asking or if someone goes do u wanna know whats on it? Its so tempting when someone just offers it. If it had been some class that didnt matter in the long run (not related to what i want to do - like history of musical theatre or something) then i might consider doing it, but all my core classes in my majors build and if i didnt learn in then i was gonna be in MAJOR trouble in grad school, so for the most part i tried never to take an edge, plus i woulda felt sooooo guilty. But its all up to ur personality and how u feel about it