Too obvious?

[Entity]

Villain has been involved in very few pots, seems to be TAGgish. Any suggestions for alternate lines here?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, SB calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

[cnfuzzd]

call the preflop 3 bet

other than that not much i could add...

peace

john nickle

[rmarotti]

Is there a benefit to waiting for the river to raise?

[jason_t]

I wouldn't have capped preflop (since it's HU) and I would have waited until the river to raise.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
call the preflop 3 bet

other than that not much i could add...

peace

john nickle

[/ QUOTE ]

For deception or just equity purposes? I'd consider calling with AA, but capping seems to be the better line in most situations.

Rob

[Sarge85]

You could wait until the river, but there's not guranteed he will be the river, and may just check fold if he's on a bluff.

I think it's fine.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[wuwei]

I think just calling the preflop 3-bet is the best alternative. The deception that you gain should make up for 1 lost sb. However, your line works as well. It looks like this time he had JJ or QQ and it was easy to get away on the turn. Other times he'll have AK or AA and will be calling or 3-betting.

[cnfuzzd]

mostly just for deception. If he is a semi-solid tag, the chances that you have him crushed are huge. I will give up a litttle bit of preflop value if i think i can exploit him postflop. This is especially key with the semi-solid tag, since they are probably paying attention and cap screams big hand, but a call is less likely to define your hand. Plus, i think it make him much more likely to call your turn raise, and possibly even call a river bet. Assuming you havent been playing him that deceptively.

Note that when an A flops i usually raise the flop, and go from there.

Alot of the tags ive been playing against lately seem to know my empire account based on my posting here, so ive started being a touch more deceptive. My advice might be biased because of that.


peace

john nickle

[jason_t]

Deception.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

all this talk about not not capping preflop really doesn't make that big of a difference one way or the other. but you should mix it up every now and then, and i'm notorious for not capping aces and kings heads up hoping to extract more bets postflop. but honestly sometimes it wouldn't have mattereed much either way because of what flops. if he has AQ and he totally bricks, its goign to be hard to get bets out of him. if he has QQ he probabably would play his hand strong anyways whether you capped or not too.

anyhoo, that said i'd raise the flop as i think theres a good chance he'd 3-bet since he did bet into the preflop capper. though waiting till the turn is okay too though you won't be getting in multiple turn bets. i don't think waiting till the river in this spot is a good line at all.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't think waiting till the river in this spot is a good line at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[cnfuzzd]

[ QUOTE ]
all this talk about not not capping preflop really doesn't make that big of a difference one way or the other. but you should mix it up every now and then, and i'm notorious for not capping aces and kings heads up hoping to extract more bets postflop. but honestly sometimes it wouldn't have mattereed much either way because of what flops. if he has AQ and he totally bricks, its goign to be hard to get bets out of him. if he has QQ he probabably would play his hand strong anyways whether you capped or not too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against the pf cap it really looks like villian is betting into hero waiting for a raise to give him a reason to fold. While i agree that if an A or K flops, we are probably not going to make much money, capping or no. However, if the flop comes somewhat raggedy, and villian doesnt hit trips, then a smoothcall preflop make it more likely that opponent will call some bets on the flop/turn. Especially if villian has AK/AQ or perhaps even KQ, he can easily put us on 88-TT and believe that he has the correct odds to draw to his overcards.

peace

john nickle

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i don't think waiting till the river in this spot is a good line at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

indeed. why not? i think this is the perfect spot to wait to the river to raise, especially versus a TAG who is:

1. capable of bluffing here
2. capable of making a good laydown

i'd assume the argument against waiting is the "you lose lots of bets the times he DOES have a ten." But I'd say you lose only 2 or 3, and you gain those back and more the times he doesn't have one, which are far more common.

[cold_cash]

If he has a gut-shot or a flush draw you can probably stick him for an extra bet on the turn, but not on the river.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
If he has a gut-shot or a flush draw you can probably stick him for an extra bet on the turn, but not on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's a solid TAG he will probably (correctly) fold his gutshot to your turn raise. The flush draw argument is a good point, but I think it is infrequent enough to be outweighed by the extra bets you extract by waiting to the river to raise. And by the point, there is enough in the pot that there's a good chance he calls your raise with two pair.

[DeathDonkey]

I would just raise the flop. You might get lucky and he'll go to war with AK/AA, he will most likely call down with QQ/JJ, he may chase the gutshot with AQ/AJ. If I were villain and you used this line on me I would think hard about folding QQ/JJ on the turn.

-DeathDonkey

[Shillx]

You should consider raising the flop to mix it up. If he check/folds the turn then you know what to do with him next time when you have nothing.

Brad