best rap artist/group ever [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

VBM

02-14-2005, 03:58 PM

loaded question; like saying "who is the greatest baseball player ever"

you have to consider the times...

in his time, back in the day; Rakim and it's neven close.

more modern times...i can see why ppl would say biggie, 2pac, wu-tang & jay-z & all of them are great in their own rights.

i'll say Eminem and i'll probably get plenty of sh!t for it, but I'd say that Guilty Conscience & Stan are 2 of the most unique & well-conceived rhymes that I can remember...

JaBlue

02-14-2005, 04:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i'll say Eminem and i'll probably get plenty of sh!t for it, but I'd say that Guilty Conscience & Stan are 2 of the most unique & well-conceived rhymes that I can remember...

[/ QUOTE ]

He's creative and whatnot but his voice is [censored] annoying

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 04:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'll say Eminem and i'll probably get plenty of sh!t for it, but I'd say that Guilty Conscience & Stan are 2 of the most unique & well-conceived rhymes that I can remember...

[/ QUOTE ]

He's creative and whatnot but his voice is [censored] nnoying

[/ QUOTE ]

and like guru said "it's mostly tha voice..."

chaas4747

02-14-2005, 04:06 PM

Late 80's - Proabably either Rakim, or Cube.
90's - gotta go with 2pac.
00's - Eminem.

Bulldog

02-14-2005, 04:11 PM

1) Tupac
1A) Jay-Z

wjmooner

02-14-2005, 04:13 PM

Tribe Called Quest, followed closely by the Marshall Mathers (non Slim Shady) persona of Eminem

WJ

swede123

02-14-2005, 04:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
loaded question; like saying "who is the greatest baseball player ever"

you have to consider the times...

in his time, back in the day; Rakim and it's neven close.

more modern times...i can see why ppl would say biggie, 2pac, wu-tang & jay-z & all of them are great in their own rights.

i'll say Eminem and i'll probably get plenty of sh!t for it, but I'd say that Guilty Conscience & Stan are 2 of the most unique & well-conceived rhymes that I can remember...

[/ QUOTE ]

Eminem has definitely made some good [censored]. Slim Shady and Marshall Mathers are both solid albums, but lately he's been making crap. It's all a repeat of his earlier stuff, except now the originality is gone. No way he's anywhere close to best ever honors. I'd give those honors to Snoop way before Eminem.

Tribe's music was, and still is, some of the smoothest, most intelligent rap. They didn't rely on the hard-core/gangsta rap image because they were talented enough to create their own sound and their own style. If you haven't listened to Tribe lately do yourself a favor and check it out. It rocks.

Swede

nothumb

02-14-2005, 04:19 PM

I will always be a hip-hop fan stuck in 1995 or so. So to me it's Big, Pac, Nas, Mobb Deep, Outkast, Wu-Tang, Tribe, etc.

I have finally made peace with Jay-Z and can listen to his rhymes (and Biggie's rhymes when he says them, too.)

I am sad that nobody has even mentioned Nas. His first two albums may be the best 1-2 debut by any rapper. I like Ready to Die slightly better than Illmatic but It Was Written seriously owns Life After Death. Anyway, I may be leaving someone out, but it's an interesting thought.

NT

gonores

02-14-2005, 04:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's all a repeat of his earlier stuff, except now the originality is gone.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am in tears laughing at you.

Macdaddy Warsaw

02-14-2005, 04:24 PM

Sage Francis

NoPeak

02-14-2005, 04:28 PM

Snoop

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 04:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am sad that nobody has even mentioned Nas. His first two albums may be the best 1-2 debut by any rapper. I like Ready to Die slightly better than Illmatic but It Was Written seriously owns Life After Death. Anyway, I may be leaving someone out, but it's an interesting thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

illmatic is definitely top 5 ever. but nas fell off too hard and too fast to be considered best ever imo. nevertheless, i seriously considered nominating him.

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 04:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Sage Francis

[/ QUOTE ]

damn that's a good joke. i'll be laughing about that for days.

The Yugoslavian

02-14-2005, 04:46 PM

Group: Wu-Tang
Group back in the day: RUN DMC
Duo: Outkast
Duo back in the day: Public Enemy
Individual: Tupac -> Eminem
Individual back in the day: Rakim
Individual longevity: Nas

Jay-Z is not even close to the top in any category IMO.

Yugoslav

Joe826

02-14-2005, 04:47 PM

jay-z. he says so in almost all of his songs, don't you listen? wait, that's all rappers.

The Yugoslavian

02-14-2005, 04:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
not 2pac

[/ QUOTE ]

He better be near the top of your list then.

If not Tupac, who?

Yugoslav

Joe826

02-14-2005, 04:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Individual: Tupac -> Eminem

[/ QUOTE ]

eminem > jay-z - wtf?

Jack of Arcades

02-14-2005, 04:48 PM

Yeah, the best is obviously Aesop Rock.

astroglide

02-14-2005, 04:50 PM

http://www.tollbooth.org/2002/creviews/dctalk2.jpg

The Yugoslavian

02-14-2005, 04:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Individual: Tupac -> Eminem

[/ QUOTE ]

eminem > jay-z - wtf?

[/ QUOTE ]

Infinitely better.

Yugoslav

Joe826

02-14-2005, 04:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Infinitely better.

[/ QUOTE ]

actually that's technically impossible.

Soul Daddy

02-14-2005, 04:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Group: Wu-Tang
Group back in the day: RUN DMC
Duo: Outkast
Duo back in the day: Public Enemy
Individual: Tupac -> Eminem
Individual back in the day: Rakim
Individual longevity: Nas

Jay-Z is not even close to the top in any category IMO.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

How does Run DMC qualify as a group while PE is a duo? They each have a DJ. Plus PE has a marching army complete with anti-semitic leader.

ilya

02-14-2005, 05:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
not 2pac

[/ QUOTE ]

He better be near the top of your list then.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not really on my list at all.

[ QUOTE ]
Then who?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe OutKast. Nas is good. So is Mobb Deep. . Gang Starr but their production sucks. Lauryn Hill and Black Thought are incredible rhymers. So are The Alkoholics. Jay-Z is decent, though he's about 100 times as cocky as he is witty. Biggie's amazing at his best but he didn't make enough great songs for me to think he's the best ever.
I dunno, it feels kinda silly trying to name the 1 best ever. Hip hop is so varied, and what I like depends for me a lot on my mood. Plus it's more about the producers, anyway. I just know I'm not a 2pac fan. Except of course for "Thugs Get Lonely Too."

BusterStacks

02-14-2005, 05:12 PM

Jay-Z... and it's not close. 2pac sucks and is hella overrated.

Reef

02-14-2005, 05:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
2pac

[/ QUOTE ]

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 05:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
not 2pac

[/ QUOTE ]

He better be near the top of your list then.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not really on my list at all.

[ QUOTE ]
Then who?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. Nas is good. Maybe Mobb Deep. Maybe The Alkoholics.

[/ QUOTE ]

you did see that this is "best ever," right?

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 05:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Individual longevity: Nas

[/ QUOTE ]

are you serious? he made one classic album, one good album, and a bunch of so-so crap with occasional good stuff ever since. "nas" and "longevity" do not belong in the same sentence.

Benjamin

02-14-2005, 05:41 PM

Public Enemy

The Beastie Boys also deserve a mention in this thread, but don't quite get the nod, IMO.

B.

chaas4747

02-14-2005, 05:44 PM

2Pac has been dead for like 10 years and he is still selling as many albums as anyone in the business. That is longevity.

sexypanda

02-14-2005, 05:48 PM

http://www.angelfire.com/hiphop/audio/iceyhot1.jpg

enough said

housenuts

02-14-2005, 05:49 PM

i only seen one mention of snoop dogg. his doggystle album is probably the best rap album out there.

other shoutouts go to
2pac
biggie
ludacris

JoeU

02-14-2005, 05:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A Tribe Called Quest.

[/ QUOTE ]

This thread should have ended right here.

Joe

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 05:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A Tribe Called Quest.

[/ QUOTE ]

This thread should have ended right here.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, and it's not even close.

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 05:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ludacris

[/ QUOTE ]

this thread is hilarious.

cbragado

02-14-2005, 06:07 PM

Best underground: The Hieroglyphics

Not so underground: The Pharcyde

Kind of commercial: Beastie Boys

Vince Young

02-14-2005, 06:46 PM

Big Pun, followed by Big L.

housenuts

02-14-2005, 06:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ludacris

[/ QUOTE ]

this thread is hilarious.

[/ QUOTE ]

you ain't down with luda? that guy can rhyme like no utha

Vince Young

02-14-2005, 06:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Big Pun, followed by Big L.

[/ QUOTE ]
I forgot, Eminem would be the only answer if you don't count his last album.

TobDog

02-14-2005, 07:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]

enough said

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont really see a pic and didnt know "Hosted by Angelfire" is a group.

ilya

02-14-2005, 07:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
not 2pac

[/ QUOTE ]

He better be near the top of your list then.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not really on my list at all.

[ QUOTE ]
Then who?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. Nas is good. Maybe Mobb Deep. Maybe The Alkoholics.

[/ QUOTE ]

you did see that this is "best ever," right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I did. Either of those is clearly a better choice than 2pac. I realize I'm in the minority, I don't really want to argue about this.

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 07:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
not 2pac

[/ QUOTE ]

He better be near the top of your list then.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not really on my list at all.

[ QUOTE ]
Then who?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. Nas is good. Maybe Mobb Deep. Maybe The Alkoholics.

[/ QUOTE ]

you did see that this is "best ever," right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I did. Either of those is clearly a better choice than 2pac.

[/ QUOTE ]

lmfao

ilya

02-14-2005, 07:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
not 2pac

[/ QUOTE ]

He better be near the top of your list then.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not really on my list at all.

[ QUOTE ]
Then who?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. Nas is good. Maybe Mobb Deep. Maybe The Alkoholics.

[/ QUOTE ]

you did see that this is "best ever," right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I did. Either of those is clearly a better choice than 2pac.

[/ QUOTE ]

lmfao

[/ QUOTE ]

whatevah. time will prove me right.

thatpfunk

02-14-2005, 07:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
not 2pac

Maybe OutKast. Nas is good. So is Mobb Deep. . Gang Starr but their production sucks. Lauryn Hill and Black Thought are incredible rhymers. ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Um. Ya. Ok.

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 07:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Big Pun, followed by Big L.

[/ QUOTE ]

while i give you props for saying big l, you're wrong on both accounts. neither is best ever, though they're both amazing.

syka16

02-14-2005, 07:30 PM

lol

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 07:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
not 2pac

[/ QUOTE ]

He better be near the top of your list then.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not really on my list at all.

[ QUOTE ]
Then who?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. Nas is good. Maybe Mobb Deep. Maybe The Alkoholics.

[/ QUOTE ]

you did see that this is "best ever," right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I did. Either of those is clearly a better choice than 2pac.

[/ QUOTE ]

lmfao

[/ QUOTE ]

whatevah. time will prove me right.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, because the 'liks and mobb deep are doing nothing but improving as time goes on.

i mean come on, mobb deep has only one good album (though it is damn good), and the 'liks being in this discussion is just a joke.

this is, to use my new favorite quote, "comedy plutonium."

mmbt0ne

02-14-2005, 07:38 PM

<---

jakethebake

02-14-2005, 07:40 PM

Yep. We definitely needed the 100th thread on this.

Vince Young

02-14-2005, 07:43 PM

thatpfunk

02-14-2005, 07:45 PM

This is such a loaded question and there are so many rappers I would love to say...

It is really difficult not to say Eminem, simply because he keeps putting out very, very good songs (i dislike his new album very much, but there are some incredibly good tracks. His first 3 albums are all classics).

Andre 3000 is a realistic alternative, but it depends on where he is taking his music. I am not sure how much he will be rapping in the future.

Biggie and Big L did not release enough albums, although what they did produce was amazing.

Tupac was an amazing writer and his social commentaries are brilliant, but as an overall "rapper" he is just a notch below Biggie, Big L, etc.

Wu Tang was ahead of their time, but have released complete sh!t since '97.

Jay-Z released too much garabge pop-rap garbage after Rreasonable Doubt and before The Black Album... The Dynasty: Roc La Familia anyone??

And I would love to say some more under ground progressive stuff (Aesop, Atmosphere, Living Legends) but the greatest rapper ever needs to be popular as much as I hate to admit it.

So... I guess my pick would be Eminem, but if Andre starts rapping again, I'll go with him.

Caveat- I was too young for a lot of amazing older rappers, so my opinions are obviously skewed towards post-90's rap. There are some very good arguments for Big Daddy Kane and many others.

Also, Snoop shouldn't even be considered for something like "best rapper." Even he knows this and would admit to it. "Most entertaining?" That is definetly an argument, but his overall rapping skills are just not there.

syka16

02-14-2005, 07:49 PM

Best groups in order:
1. Wu Tang
2. Mob Deep
3. Tribe Called Quest

Best Rappers:
1. Biggie
2. 2 Pac
3. RZA

Best Rap Song:
1. Kurrupt, "Back on the Smash"
2. Mob Deep, "Shook Ones"
3. Biggie, "Things Done Changed"

Sooga

02-14-2005, 07:55 PM

Ultramagnetic MC's... they were way ahead of their time.

ilya

02-14-2005, 08:05 PM

I can understand that the Liks would seem like a weird choice to most people, but though they do cultivate this niche, gimmicky image, they're all witty, creative rhymers who've been writing great verses for almost 15 years now. I know they wouldn't win any popular polls but as far as I'm concerned they're right up there.

David04

02-14-2005, 08:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]

So... I guess my pick would be Eminem, but if Andre starts rapping again, I'll go with him.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you talking about Dr. Dre? Dude has ghostwriters.

Vince Young

02-14-2005, 08:15 PM

Andre 3000.

David04

02-14-2005, 08:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Andre 3000.

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, thought it may have been him.

Big Boi>Andre 3000 though. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 08:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Big Pun, followed by Big L.

[/ QUOTE ]

while i give you props for saying big l, you're wrong on both accounts. neither is best ever, though they're both amazing.

[/ QUOTE ]
Both are better than Guru or Kool Keith.

[/ QUOTE ]

i never mentioned guru as an individual mc, and i wouldn't. however, as a group gang starr is arguably second-to-none imo.

as far as kool keith goes, he's been innovating since the late eighties, and was WAY ahead of his time. kool keith was the first to do so many things that have made hip hop what it is today. go listen to critical beatdown.

besides, big pun had what, 2 albums? and big l only had a couple. again, i love big l (and pun too for that matter), but they simply weren't around long enough or doing anythign SO amazing as to be considered best ever. sure, they had potential to become best ever, but they sadly didn't make it because their lives ended early.

amazing that no one has mentioned krs-one.

ThaSaltCracka

02-14-2005, 09:36 PM

Group: its either Wu or NWA
Artist: Biggie is my choice, but cases can be made for many.

snowbank

02-14-2005, 09:40 PM

David04

02-14-2005, 10:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Group: its either Wu or NWA
Artist: Biggie is my choice, but cases can be made for many.

[/ QUOTE ]
Easy choice for group, N.W.A Considering that they single-handedly created gangsta rap, and most of the group were quality artists (except for Yella, I don't think he did much outside of N.W.A, but correct me if I'm wrong).

I mean....they recieved a warning letter from the FBI....it doesn't get much cooler than that.

Vince Young

02-14-2005, 10:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
except for Yella

[/ QUOTE ]
...and Dre, and Eazy.

ThaSaltCracka

02-14-2005, 10:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
except for Yella

[/ QUOTE ]
...and Dre, and Eazy.

[/ QUOTE ]yeah Dre and Eazy sucked, and never really did anything.

Chris Daddy Cool

02-14-2005, 10:42 PM

group:

1. outkast

2. tribe called quest
3. the roots
4. P.E.
5. gangstarr

rapper:
this can go on forever and i won't even try to argue who's the best, but if i was a rapper and i had to pick somebody to do a guest spot on my song for a two minute verse

1. andre3000
2. common
3. eminem
4. jay-z
5. nas
6. master P, make them say UUUUUUUUUUH

i'm joking about one of these 6 btw.

Vince Young

02-14-2005, 10:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
except for Yella

[/ QUOTE ]
...and Dre, and Eazy.

[/ QUOTE ]yeah Dre and Eazy sucked

[/ QUOTE ]

ThaSaltCracka

02-14-2005, 10:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
except for Yella

[/ QUOTE ]
...and Dre, and Eazy.

[/ QUOTE ]yeah Dre and Eazy sucked

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]Vince any credibility you may have had in regards to rap music is completely gone now.

Vince Young

02-14-2005, 10:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
except for Yella

[/ QUOTE ]
...and Dre, and Eazy.

[/ QUOTE ]yeah Dre and Eazy sucked

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]Vince any credibility you may have had in regards to rap music is completely gone now.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you like anyone who writes their own lyrics?

billyjex

02-14-2005, 11:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i only seen one mention of snoop dogg. his doggystle album is probably the best rap album out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you heard his latest crap? It's f'ing horrible. "Drop it like it's.. some pussy ass rap."

Doggystyle, old Dr Dre, that stuff is good.

thatpfunk

02-14-2005, 11:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you like anyone who writes their own lyrics?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is completely irrelevant. You said in the context of the quote that they "did nothing" after leaving NWA. It is ridiculous if you cannot understand how massive Dre's influence over rap music has been.

ThaSaltCracka

02-14-2005, 11:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
except for Yella

[/ QUOTE ]
...and Dre, and Eazy.

[/ QUOTE ]yeah Dre and Eazy sucked

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]Vince any credibility you may have had in regards to rap music is completely gone now.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you like anyone who writes their own lyrics?

[/ QUOTE ]Dre may not write his lyrics, but he sure as hell makes his own beats. As for Eazy, who cares what he did after NWA (he did sign and launch the careers of Bone Thugs).

wacki

02-14-2005, 11:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This thread makes me cry.

I can't pick anybody as "best". All I know is that it sure as hell isn't 2 Pac.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF do you have against 2pac?

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 11:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Group: its either Wu or NWA
Artist: Biggie is my choice, but cases can be made for many.

[/ QUOTE ]
Easy choice for group, N.W.A Considering that they single-handedly created gangsta rap,

[/ QUOTE ]

so i guess you've never heard of kool g rap.

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 11:21 PM

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 11:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
group:

1. outkast

2. tribe called quest
3. the roots
4. P.E.
5. gangstarr

rapper:
this can go on forever and i won't even try to argue who's the best, but if i was a rapper and i had to pick somebody to do a guest spot on my song for a two minute verse

1. andre3000
2. common
3. eminem
4. jay-z
5. nas
6. master P, make them say UUUUUUUUUUH

i'm joking about one of these 6 btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

i should just give up. someone just get it over with and stab me with a brick.

ThaSaltCracka

02-14-2005, 11:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Individual longevity: Nas

[/ QUOTE ]

are you serious? he made one classic album, one good album, and a bunch of so-so crap with occasional good stuff ever since. "nas" and "longevity" do not belong in the same sentence.

[/ QUOTE ]this is really dumb.

Nas:
Illmatic....classic
It was Written....very good
I Am...... decent
Nastradamus.....horrible
Stillmatic.....very good
Gods Son.....very good
I hear he's new one is decent.

I would have to say Nas has had a very good career, and in fact the only mainstream artist to have better albums and success over a longer period is Jay-Z.

Everything I just said is irrefutable.

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 11:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Everything I just said is irrefutable.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah...you're the oot hip hop authority right?

comedy plutonium.

ThaSaltCracka

02-14-2005, 11:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Everything I just said is irrefutable.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah...you're the oot hip hop authority right?

comedy plutonium.

[/ QUOTE ]perhaps, but you most certainly act like you are the authority. Anyone that considers Kool Keith one of the best ever is clearly a backpacker and total hip hop snob. Its really this simple, in Hip Hop the best ever have had the most success.

Jack of Arcades

02-14-2005, 11:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Its really this simple, in Hip Hop the best ever have had the most success.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is clearly in error.

Vince Young

02-14-2005, 11:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Its really this simple, in Hip Hop the best ever have had the most success.

[/ QUOTE ]
No.

Vince Young

02-14-2005, 11:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you like anyone who writes their own lyrics?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is completely irrelevant. You said in the context of the quote that they "did nothing" after leaving NWA. It is ridiculous if you cannot understand how massive Dre's influence over rap music has been.

[/ QUOTE ]
I said in the context of my quote that they were not "quality artists."

Vince Young

02-14-2005, 11:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dre may not write his lyrics, but he sure as hell makes his own beats.

[/ QUOTE ]
Everything he didn't steal from Daz, yeah.

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 11:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Everything I just said is irrefutable.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah...you're the oot hip hop authority right?

comedy plutonium.

[/ QUOTE ]perhaps, but you most certainly act like you are the authority. Anyone that considers Kool Keith one of the best ever is clearly a backpacker and total hip hop snob. Its really this simple, in Hip Hop the best ever have had the most success.

[/ QUOTE ]

backpacker? ha ha ha. i really don't care what you think about me. i will say that every time i've seen "backpacker" used as an insult, it's by someone trying to compensate for their lack of knowledge about less-than-mainstream hip hop.

ThaSaltCracka

02-14-2005, 11:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its really this simple, in Hip Hop the best ever have had the most success.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is clearly in error.

[/ QUOTE ]no, its not. I don't care if you think some underground rapper is the best, he may very well be the best to you , but to you is the key part. A guy like Aesop Rock (Just throwing his name out, I personally like him as well) may be very good (to me atleast) but that doesn't mean he is the best ever. The best ever is a guy or guys that appeal to a lot of people and that is definitely reflected in the amount of success they have had.

You could be the best undergroundish rapper ever, maybe sell 1 million total records over a 5-6-7-8 album career, but that doesn't even hold a candle to a guy who sells 20+ million records over a similarly lengthed career.

I repeat, it is this simple, the best ever had the most success. Success to me is defined as length of career, statying power/appeal, and record sales.

Vince Young

02-14-2005, 11:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its really this simple, in Hip Hop the best ever have had the most success.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is clearly in error.

[/ QUOTE ]no, its not. I don't care if you think some underground rapper is the best, he may very well be the best to you , but to you is the key part. A guy like Aesop Rock (Just throwing his name out, I personally like him as well) may be very good (to me atleast) but that doesn't mean he is the best ever. The best ever is a guy or guys that appeal to a lot of people and that is definitely reflected in the amount of success they have had.

You could be the best undergroundish rapper ever, maybe sell 1 million total records over a 5-6-7-8 album career, but that doesn't even hold a candle to a guy who sells 20+ million records over a similarly lengthed career.

I repeat, it is this simple, the best ever had the most success. Success to me is defined as length of career, statying power/appeal, and record sales.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nelly > KRS-ONE?
LL Cool J > Canibus?

ThaSaltCracka

02-14-2005, 11:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dre may not write his lyrics, but he sure as hell makes his own beats.

[/ QUOTE ]
Everything he didn't steal from Daz, yeah.

[/ QUOTE ]yeah he stole all those beats from Daz on both NWA albums, Eazy's albums, Tupacs album, 2001 album, Em's albums, etc.... Dude, you really are an idiot.

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 11:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Its really this simple, in Hip Hop the best ever have had the most success.

[/ QUOTE ]

so mase is more qualified to be "best ever" than rakim, krs-one, chuck d, kool g rap, etc? good one.

ThaSaltCracka

02-14-2005, 11:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its really this simple, in Hip Hop the best ever have had the most success.

[/ QUOTE ]

so mase is more qualified to be "best ever" than rakim, krs-one, chuck d, kool g rap, etc? good one.

[/ QUOTE ]Mase would not fit my definition of success at all. Chuck D and Rakim would. KRS-One is overrated.

Jack of Arcades

02-14-2005, 11:46 PM

What makes hip hop different from any other forms of music? Or movies?

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 11:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I repeat, it is this simple, the best ever had the most success. Success to me is defined as length of career, statying power/appeal, and record sales.

[/ QUOTE ]

i shudder at the thought of what your music collection looks like.

The Yugoslavian

02-14-2005, 11:46 PM

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 11:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
LL Cool J > Canibus?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, but not for the reasons he stated.

ThaSaltCracka

02-14-2005, 11:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Nelly > KRS-ONE?
LL Cool J > Canibus?

[/ QUOTE ]Nelly's run is about over, the whole "thurrrr" singy songy fade is falling, KRS-One is a better lyricist but thats it.

LLCJ kills Canibus, [censored] all you LL haters, he was a rap pioneer and if you are to much a hater to admit that then stop talking to me.

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 11:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Individual longevity: Nas

[/ QUOTE ]

are you serious? he made one classic album, one good album, and a bunch of so-so crap with occasional good stuff ever since. "nas" and "longevity" do not belong in the same sentence.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can be convinced otherwise if you have a better option.

[/ QUOTE ]

for one, ice cube.

ThaSaltCracka

02-14-2005, 11:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What makes hip hop different from any other forms of music? Or movies?

[/ QUOTE ] Hip Hop is music so there is no difference. Movies are entirely different, because you are generally speaking about one piece of work which is reflected on solely and not as a piece of a catalouge(sp).

ThaSaltCracka

02-14-2005, 11:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I repeat, it is this simple, the best ever had the most success. Success to me is defined as length of career, statying power/appeal, and record sales.

[/ QUOTE ]

i shudder at the thought of what your music collection looks like.

[/ QUOTE ]yeah, I imagine it would bother you to see a lot of the same CD's that you own.

Jack of Arcades

02-14-2005, 11:51 PM

So, then, by definition, the best albums of all time would be ranked by total sales?

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 11:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I repeat, it is this simple, the best ever had the most success. Success to me is defined as length of career, statying power/appeal, and record sales.

[/ QUOTE ]

i shudder at the thought of what your music collection looks like.

[/ QUOTE ]yeah, I imagine it would bother you to see a lot of the same CD's that you own.

[/ QUOTE ]

it would bother me to see that quality music sitting next to some of the crap you probably hold in high regard because of the artist's long career and record sales.

BusterStacks

02-14-2005, 11:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Nelly > KRS-ONE?
LL Cool J > Canibus?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes.

BusterStacks

02-14-2005, 11:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its really this simple, in Hip Hop the best ever have had the most success.

[/ QUOTE ]
No.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

Hulk Hogan

02-14-2005, 11:54 PM

hard to believe I didn't see one mention of Ice-T or De La Soul in this thread.

wu tang? you've got to be effing kidding me.

ThaSaltCracka

02-14-2005, 11:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So, then, by definition, the best albums of all time would be ranked by total sales?

[/ QUOTE ]perhaps not the best ever, but every single album in the top 100 for all time sales is probably pretty good. But really thats not the point of my argument. The best artist ever sold a lot of records over several years, and you wouldn't neccesarily have to have 5x platinum albums every time.

Vince Young

02-14-2005, 11:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its really this simple, in Hip Hop the best ever have had the most success.

[/ QUOTE ]
No.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

[/ QUOTE ]
So basically, 2pac and Eminem are the greatest rappers of all time.

Thread over, we have our answers.

-Syk-

02-14-2005, 11:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Big Pun, followed by Big L.

[/ QUOTE ]

while i give you props for saying big l, you're wrong on both accounts. neither is best ever, though they're both amazing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for correcting him, buddy.. You may be the only person on Earth who knows FOR SURE who is the greatest.

[ QUOTE ]
Dre may not write his lyrics, but he sure as hell makes his own beats.

[/ QUOTE ]

We're cool and everything now, TSC, but Mel Man ghostproduces for Dre a whole helluva lot and so do other producers.

[ QUOTE ]
Its really this simple, in Hip Hop the best ever have had the most success.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life.

Vince Young

02-14-2005, 11:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Nelly > KRS-ONE?
LL Cool J > Canibus?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes.

[/ QUOTE ]
No.

ThaSaltCracka

02-14-2005, 11:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I repeat, it is this simple, the best ever had the most success. Success to me is defined as length of career, statying power/appeal, and record sales.

[/ QUOTE ]

i shudder at the thought of what your music collection looks like.

[/ QUOTE ]yeah, I imagine it would bother you to see a lot of the same CD's that you own.

[/ QUOTE ]

it would bother me to see that quality music sitting next to some of the crap you probably hold in high regard because of the artist's long career and record sales.

[/ QUOTE ]

here is a pic of my playlist randomized.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/ThaSaltCracka/playlist.jpg

if you want to see more just ask.

lucas9000

02-14-2005, 11:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Big Pun, followed by Big L.

[/ QUOTE ]

while i give you props for saying big l, you're wrong on both accounts. neither is best ever, though they're both amazing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for correcting him, buddy.. You may be the only person on Earth who knows FOR SURE who is the greatest.

[/ QUOTE ]

no problem. with that knowledge i feel the responsibility to correct others who get out of line.

lucas9000

02-15-2005, 12:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I repeat, it is this simple, the best ever had the most success. Success to me is defined as length of career, statying power/appeal, and record sales.

[/ QUOTE ]

i shudder at the thought of what your music collection looks like.

[/ QUOTE ]yeah, I imagine it would bother you to see a lot of the same CD's that you own.

[/ QUOTE ]

it would bother me to see that quality music sitting next to some of the crap you probably hold in high regard because of the artist's long career and record sales.

[/ QUOTE ]

here is a pic of my playlist randomized.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/ThaSaltCracka/playlist.jpg

if you want to see more just ask.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow you sure showed me! zing!

-Syk-

02-15-2005, 12:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Big Pun, followed by Big L.

[/ QUOTE ]

while i give you props for saying big l, you're wrong on both accounts. neither is best ever, though they're both amazing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for correcting him, buddy.. You may be the only person on Earth who knows FOR SURE who is the greatest.

[/ QUOTE ]

no problem. with that knowledge i feel the responsibility to correct others who get out of line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let them know, man. LET THEM KNOW.

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 12:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]

We're cool and everything now, TSC, but Mel Man ghostproduces for Dre a whole helluva lot and so do other producers.

[/ QUOTE ] every producer has their proteges, but lets be honest, Dre always has made phat beats and always will. The key to his success is not in his protege beat makers, its him. But I hear what your saying.

[ QUOTE ]
Dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life.

[/ QUOTE ] How so? Lets be honest here, easily the most popular and successful (and perhaps best???) rock group is the Beatles.

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 12:02 AM

lucas9000

02-15-2005, 12:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
dude, you really need to shut up.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 12:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dude, you really need to shut up.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh

[/ QUOTE ] no I mean really shut up. You have spouted off about being some hip hop guru and all you have really down is illustrate that you have heard of some underground rappers.

Jman28

02-15-2005, 12:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I Am...... decent

[/ QUOTE ]

No. I Am was great. Much better than Stillmatic (which I also like) which you rated 'very good'. Undying Love is easily one of my favorite songs.

Vince Young

02-15-2005, 12:09 AM

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 12:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I Am...... decent

[/ QUOTE ]

No. I Am was great. Much better than Stillmatic (which I also like) which you rated 'very good'. Undying Love is easily one of my favorite songs.

[/ QUOTE ] I stand by my decent rating, but if you like it a lot more power to you man, I am a Nas fan so I won't argue with you.

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 12:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dude, you really need to shut up.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh

[/ QUOTE ] no I mean really shut up. You have spouted off about being some hip hop guru and all you have really down is illustrate that you have heard of some underground rappers.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah Gang Starr and Kool Keith are underground.

[/ QUOTE ] hmmmm... I think you proved my point even more, thanks.

-Syk-

02-15-2005, 12:10 AM

I wouldn't exactly call Mel Man his protege', and it really has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Dre has ghostproducers & ghostwriters. Nobody is denying he's one of the all time greatest producers, I'm just saying he doesn't make all his own sh!t. I wouldn't say he's phat either, but that's just because I stopped saying phat when I turned 15.

[ QUOTE ]
How so? Lets be honest here, easily the most popular and successful (and perhaps best???) rock group is the Beatles.

[/ QUOTE ]

Terrible logic.

Nelly > KRS One
Ying Yang Twins > Big L
50 Cent > Canibus

Get real.

lucas9000

02-15-2005, 12:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dude, you really need to shut up.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh

[/ QUOTE ] no I mean really shut up. You have spouted off about being some hip hop guru and all you have really down is illustrate that you have heard of some underground rappers.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm done arguing with you. go ahead and think you're mr. hip-hop, i don't care. after what you've said in this and other hip-hop threads, though, i don't really respect your opinion on the subject anyway.

Ianco15

02-15-2005, 12:10 AM

Jedi Mind Tricks and Dialated Peoples.

nongice626

02-15-2005, 12:11 AM

What about Pink Floyd?

Vince Young

02-15-2005, 12:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dude, you really need to shut up.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh

[/ QUOTE ] no I mean really shut up. You have spouted off about being some hip hop guru and all you have really down is illustrate that you have heard of some underground rappers.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah Gang Starr and Kool Keith are underground.

[/ QUOTE ] hmmmm... I think you proved my point even more, thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]
No problem, they're of the few underground artists who sell millions of albums.

-Syk-

02-15-2005, 12:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Jedi Mind Tricks and Dialated Peoples.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jedi Mind Tricks fell off after Jus Allah left. The last 2 albums are garbage. Hopefully, with Jus Allah reuniting with Vinnie Paz & Stoupe, they'll make another classic album.

Dilated is boring. Even with Alch beats they're still usually weak.

"The best rapper can lick my ass." - Kool Keith

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 12:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Nelly > KRS One
Ying Yang Twins > Big L
50 Cent > Canibus

[/ QUOTE ] you are missing what I was saying though. One or two records does not equal greatness, I was saying that prolonged sales for 5-6 albums definitely shows that an artists is doing something right and making some good music.

A guy like Big L probably would have had a lot of success if he hadn't been shot, KRS-One has the longevity, but his appeal is really only with hardcore hip hop fans now. I can't consider someone great if they are unable to appeal to the masses through their work ( Note, I am not saying they should alter their style to sell more records, rather that their style is one which simply is not appealing to many, probably because its to militant, etc.) Cannibus is most certainly not one of the greatest, I don't care if he had what he did, he most certainly hasn't done [censored] for several years and when he was doing [censored], it really left zero impact on the game. I mean, LL basically killed him on "I Shot ya!".

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 12:18 AM

Gang Starr sold millions, I don't think Kool Keith did though.

Gang Starr would def qualify as one of the best ever. I don't like to list someone as the best ever, rather I would just say someone was one of the best ever.

InchoateHand

02-15-2005, 12:20 AM

-Syk-

02-15-2005, 12:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Nelly > KRS One
Ying Yang Twins > Big L
50 Cent > Canibus

[/ QUOTE ] you are missing what I was saying though. One or two records does not equal greatness, I was saying that prolonged sales for 5-6 albums definitely shows that an artists is doing something right and making some good music.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, my bad.. I thought you were saying that in Hip Hop the best ever have had the most success. Sorry for the mix up.

[ QUOTE ]
Cannibus is most certainly not one of the greatest, I don't care if he had what he did, he most certainly hasn't done [censored] for several years and when he was doing [censored], it really left zero impact on the game. I mean, LL basically killed him on "I Shot ya!".

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess this is where we differ. You judge a rappers ability and greatness over how many records they sell or how long they're around. I judge them on sheer talent and skill.

[ QUOTE ]
Gang Starr would def qualify as one of the best ever. I don't like to list someone as the best ever, rather I would just say someone was one of the best ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing to do with them being underground or not. They're not.

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 12:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Ah, my bad.. I thought you were saying that in Hip Hop the best ever have had the most success. Sorry for the mix up.

[/ QUOTE ] Nelly really hasn't had that much success, his latest CD sucks and he doesn't have anything playing on the radio. He basically has two singles that drove each of his forst two albums. I would say that Nelly's career will be similar to that of DMX's.

Vince Young

02-15-2005, 12:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nelly really hasn't had that much success

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you judge success by record sales.

InchoateHand

02-15-2005, 12:26 AM

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 12:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nelly really hasn't had that much success

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you judge success by record sales.

[/ QUOTE ]two records.

-Syk-

02-15-2005, 12:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ah, my bad.. I thought you were saying that in Hip Hop the best ever have had the most success. Sorry for the mix up.

[/ QUOTE ] Nelly really hasn't had that much success, his latest CD sucks and he doesn't have anything playing on the radio. He basically has two singles that drove each of his forst two albums. I would say that Nelly's career will be similar to that of DMX's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nelly hasn't had that much success? Alright, please shut up. Immediately.

Vince Young

02-15-2005, 12:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nelly really hasn't had that much success

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you judge success by record sales.

[/ QUOTE ]two records.

[/ QUOTE ]
6.

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 12:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ah, my bad.. I thought you were saying that in Hip Hop the best ever have had the most success. Sorry for the mix up.

[/ QUOTE ] Nelly really hasn't had that much success, his latest CD sucks and he doesn't have anything playing on the radio. He basically has two singles that drove each of his forst two albums. I would say that Nelly's career will be similar to that of DMX's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nelly hasn't had that much success? Alright, please shut up. Immediately.

[/ QUOTE ] I would say in todays mainstream hip hop, he hasn't done much. I mean, [censored], someone as horrible as J-Kwon can get a catchy single and video. Nelly hasn't done [censored].

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 12:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nelly really hasn't had that much success

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you judge success by record sales.

[/ QUOTE ]two records.

[/ QUOTE ]
6.

[/ QUOTE ]what?

-Syk-

02-15-2005, 12:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ah, my bad.. I thought you were saying that in Hip Hop the best ever have had the most success. Sorry for the mix up.

[/ QUOTE ] Nelly really hasn't had that much success, his latest CD sucks and he doesn't have anything playing on the radio. He basically has two singles that drove each of his forst two albums. I would say that Nelly's career will be similar to that of DMX's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nelly hasn't had that much success? Alright, please shut up. Immediately.

[/ QUOTE ] I would say in todays mainstream hip hop, he hasn't done much. I mean, [censored], someone as horrible as J-Kwon can get a catchy single and video. Nelly hasn't done [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

I realize you've been listening to hip hop for like two months, but this is pathetic.

Vince Young

02-15-2005, 12:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nelly really hasn't had that much success

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you judge success by record sales.

[/ QUOTE ]two records.

[/ QUOTE ]
6.

[/ QUOTE ]what?

[/ QUOTE ]
I was talking about albums, but I guess you mean singles. In that case, who besides Eminem has albums with more than 2 successful singles?

nongice626

02-15-2005, 12:37 AM

nongice626

02-15-2005, 12:40 AM

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 12:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nelly really hasn't had that much success

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you judge success by record sales.

[/ QUOTE ]two records.

[/ QUOTE ]
6.

[/ QUOTE ]what?

[/ QUOTE ]
I was talking about albums, but I guess you mean singles. In that case, who besides Eminem has albums with more than 2 successful singles?

[/ QUOTE ] He has 6 albums?

Jay-Z does, Nas does, 50 does, Luda does, Outkast does, Snoop does, Dre did. There is a pattern here.

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 12:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]

is the best poker book the one that sells the most copies also?

[censored] off with your lack of logic.

[/ QUOTE ] Super Systems is a horrible book right?

[censored] off with your stupid ass.

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 12:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I realize you've been listening to hip hop for like two months.

[/ QUOTE ] dude, not cool.

Vince Young

02-15-2005, 12:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nelly really hasn't had that much success

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you judge success by record sales.

[/ QUOTE ]two records.

[/ QUOTE ]
6.

[/ QUOTE ]what?

[/ QUOTE ]
I was talking about albums, but I guess you mean singles. In that case, who besides Eminem has albums with more than 2 successful singles?

[/ QUOTE ] He has 6 albums?

Jay-Z does, Nas does, 50 does, Luda does, Outkast does, Snoop does, Dre did. There is a pattern here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nas doesn't. Luda and Outkast's singles aren't as successful as their albums. Jay-Z's singles suck, Snoop's do, and Dre=Eminem.

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 12:49 AM

up until Nas newest album, he had a nice strecth on Stillmatic and Gods Son of singles and atleast tracks with huge buzz. I guess you are right about Luda and Outkast, but nonetheless the still put out singles.

BTW, I wasn't trying to say Luda and 50 are some of the best ever. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

-Syk-

02-15-2005, 12:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I wasn't trying to say Luda and 50 are some of the best ever. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly better than Big L, Canibus, KRS One & Chino XL, though.

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 12:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I wasn't trying to say Luda and 50 are some of the best ever. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly better than Big L, Canibus, KRS One & Chino XL, though.

[/ QUOTE ]oh of course.

ilya

02-15-2005, 01:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i only seen one mention of snoop dogg. his doggystle album is probably the best rap album out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you heard his latest crap? It's f'ing horrible. "Drop it like it's.. some pussy ass rap."

Doggystyle, old Dr Dre, that stuff is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate the Neptunes beat in that song, but I heard a great remix on WERS the other night. Anyone know who did it?

ilya

02-15-2005, 01:07 AM

Boots > #1

nothumb

02-15-2005, 01:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"nas" and "longevity" do not belong in the same sentence.

[/ QUOTE ]

But they do. Because every album he puts out has a few burners, and you're like, "What the hell, Nas, where have you been?" And every now and again he comes out on a remix and absolutely kills it. His flow is still one of the best in the game and it really hasn't changed much; his subject matter is just crap right now.

NT

nothumb

02-15-2005, 01:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Best Rappers:
1. Biggie
2. 2 Pac
3. RZA

[/ QUOTE ]

twatwatwaaaaat???

NT

InchoateHand

02-15-2005, 01:11 AM

Without Mr. Riley, I wouldn't know 5 million ways to kill a CEO.

You sir are officially good people.

ilya

02-15-2005, 01:11 AM

Sweet, I see you also like Masta Ace and The Liks.

InchoateHand

02-15-2005, 01:13 AM

We are a long ways from "I gave you Power."

Thanks Eddie, without whom I wouldn't know that.

InchoateHand

02-15-2005, 01:15 AM

Now this thread is getting somewhere.

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 01:26 AM

Masta Ace is a great example of an non mainstream rapper who is successful.

-Syk-

02-15-2005, 01:33 AM

Masta Ace is great.

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 01:35 AM

Indeed, IMO one of the best ever too. a lot of successful albums as well.

InchoateHand

02-15-2005, 01:36 AM

Why the [censored] are we agreeing on something?

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 01:37 AM

are we not allowed to?

InchoateHand

02-15-2005, 01:44 AM

Actually, we probably are. I should drink less.

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 01:49 AM

I thought Daryn was the one who wasn't allowed to agree with you.

InchoateHand

02-15-2005, 01:50 AM

[censored]. I'm wrong again. Where the [censored] is Betty Ford when I need her?

The Yugoslavian

02-15-2005, 02:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Individual longevity: Nas

[/ QUOTE ]

are you serious? he made one classic album, one good album, and a bunch of so-so crap with occasional good stuff ever since. "nas" and "longevity" do not belong in the same sentence.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can be convinced otherwise if you have a better option.

[/ QUOTE ]

for one, ice cube.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhhhh. Try again, /images/graemlins/wink.gif. We're talking longevity of *rapping* not acting.

Yugoslav

The Yugoslavian

02-15-2005, 02:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"nas" and "longevity" do not belong in the same sentence.

[/ QUOTE ]

But they do. Because every album he puts out has a few burners, and you're like, "What the hell, Nas, where have you been?" And every now and again he comes out on a remix and absolutely kills it. His flow is still one of the best in the game and it really hasn't changed much; his subject matter is just crap right now.

NT

[/ QUOTE ]

Finally, some sense.

I *am not* trying to claim Nas is #1 rapper. I'm saying part of what's amazing is he owns a classic and also keeps coming out with solid to very good efforts.

Yugoslav

The Yugoslavian

02-15-2005, 02:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What about Pink Floyd?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's certainly a dope rapper, yo.

Not quite in my top ten of alltime rappers, he's right behind Willie Nelson.

Yugoslav

Chris Daddy Cool

02-15-2005, 02:49 AM

what pick don't you agree with? this thread is insanely long and i dont' want to go through it.

but in general from what i've seen its always a underground vs. mainstream thing. its common knowledge that mainstream fans don't appreciate the underground enough and put people like snoop dogg on a pedastool while missing out on a lot of gems out there, while underground heads don't give enough props out to guys like jay-z simply because of his success.

The Yugoslavian

02-15-2005, 03:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
what pick don't you agree with? this thread is insanely long and i dont' want to go through it.

but in general from what i've seen its always a underground vs. mainstream thing. its common knowledge that mainstream fans don't appreciate the underground enough and put people like snoop dogg on a pedastool while missing out on a lot of gems out there, while underground heads don't give enough props out to guys like jay-z simply because of his success.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a 'mainstream' guy but just don't think Jay-Z is terribly exceptional. He's like the Karl Malone of rap, he's very very good, has had a very long consistent career. Is he a HOFer? Sure? Is he really in the top 5-10 of anything though? Not in my book. Seriously, he's very good, but that's all he is.

Yugoslav

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 03:12 AM

^^^^ I agree, some people say Reasonable Doubt is classic, but I am not sure. I think Jay has made several good CD's, but nothing Illmatic, Chronic, Ready to Die like.

bonanz

02-15-2005, 03:55 AM

THERE AIN'T NOTHIN' LIKE HIP HOP MUSIC!!

i missed this thread cause I was out for the weekend, but i love hip hop...that's all /images/graemlins/tongue.gif it's all good, even if i'm not feeling it

btw i hate when people seriously underrate jay-z (or other successful rappers) due to the amount of success/fame/money they have ammassed. I remember when I first heard jay-z and bumped reasonable doubt, you knew it was some special [censored]. Now he's familiar, to you and everyone so you don't feel special by putting your mans and them onto that new sh!t doesn't make him any less raw.

who wanna bet us that we don´t touch leathers
Stack cheddars forever
live treacherous, all the et ceteras

bisonbison

02-15-2005, 04:07 AM

This thread sucks because almost no one is naming songs and albums to listen to. I've got hundreds of rap albums from the internets, and browsing my mp3s, here are the things that popped to mind:

Most ridiculously unlistenable emo shi[/i]t ever included on a 'rap' album: Atmosphere "The Woman With The Tattooed Hands"

Reasonably well-known artist most indebted to emo, self-mutilation and an overemphasis on insufferably verbose lyrical earnestness: Atmosphere

Album best able to escape this white-man-pain by creating a new painful subgenre (Nerd Rap): MC Paul Barman "Pallelujah!"

Mediocre career best explained by the value of voice: DMX

Worst rapping rapper-producer: Puff Daddy.

Example of fading into the background he should follow: Dr. Dre.

Most surprisingly enjoyable anthem you've never heard: Onyx - "Slam Harder"

Best "I want to go to work enthusiastic without feeling angry" anthem you probably haven't heard: Talib Kweli - "Get By"

Best single line to listen to to explain why people rightfully enjoy Eminem: "Hypochondriac, hanging out at the laundymat, where all the raunchy fat white-trashy blondes be at" from "As The World Turns"

Most surprising song from a now nearly-univerasally beloved rap statesman: "Horny Lil Devil" - Ice Cube

Is Jay-Z overrated: No. No one thinks he's the best writer in the business, but he finds the most consistently awesome hooks, beats and samples. Plus he's got a good voice.

Recent Snoop that if you don't love you take life too seriously: "Batman And Robin"

Atmosphere song that makes you feel like you're stuck in an elevator with a whiny 13-year-old: PICK A SONG AT RANDOM

The alphabet and the divide in modern rap/hiphop: Masta Ace "Alphabet Soup" vs. Blackalicious "Alphabet Aerobics"

Can Lauryn Hill rap? At least as well as Puff Daddy.

Can Lil Kim rap? At least as well as P. Diddy.

Best cover of a Billy Holiday standard: ODB - "Good Morning Heartache"

Makes concept albums that don't suck: Prince Paul

Most consistently unlistenable skits: Eminem

WTF Skit Good: Prince Paul - "Ralph Nader" from "Politics of the Business"

WTF Skit Terrible: Track 8 on Biggy's "Ready To Die"

Artist I'm looking for: Angelika who appears on MF Doom's "Mm.. Food" album.

Feel free to disagree.

dr. klopek

02-15-2005, 04:10 AM

This thread reads like an inter-office email from the source headquarters.

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 04:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This thread reads like an inter-office email from the source headquarters.

[/ QUOTE ]you worked there???? This explains everything.

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 04:16 AM

you listen to rap?

crosse91

02-15-2005, 04:25 AM

alphabet aerobics is the shi.....

on a side note-what the hell happened to jurassic 5?

bonanz

02-15-2005, 04:27 AM

on a side note...
where did redman go?

dr. klopek

02-15-2005, 04:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
on a side note-what the hell happened to jurassic 5?

[/ QUOTE ]

They made the same album like 5 times.

Chris Daddy Cool

02-15-2005, 04:34 AM

reasonable doubt is a classic IMO and deserves to be in the same category with illmatic and ready to die. i'll admitt i became lukewarm for jay after vol 2, but fell back in love with him in the blueprint which i feel is another classic. other than tribe called quest how many rappers out there really have more than one defining album in their careers?

bisonbison

02-15-2005, 04:34 AM

you listen to rap?

postcount++

Evan

02-15-2005, 04:40 AM

Holy sh[/i]it!!! You're alive!!

Chris Daddy Cool

02-15-2005, 04:45 AM

yea you really wouldn't expect that out of the bisonator.

bisonbison

02-15-2005, 05:02 AM

I got burnt out on A) the sameness of playing poker; B) the sameness of these forums. Haven't played a hand in 2+ weeks.

I like OOT only because I can call people fuc[/i]king idiots and not stand out. For the most part the posts here are even more redundant than the on-topic forums.

And to be honest, the constant string of HAY GUYS WOULD YOU SEX THIS ATTRACTIVE WEOMAN threads makes me picture a lot of pathetic guys furtively masturbating, which is not an inducement to make myself at home.

You'll prolly see me posting more at the end of this week, but it was really nice to not post or even visit the forums for a week.

Hulk Hogan

02-15-2005, 05:45 AM

I am going to have to go with either Billy Ocean or Lionel Ritchie.

lucas9000

02-15-2005, 12:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Individual longevity: Nas

[/ QUOTE ]

are you serious? he made one classic album, one good album, and a bunch of so-so crap with occasional good stuff ever since. "nas" and "longevity" do not belong in the same sentence.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can be convinced otherwise if you have a better option.

[/ QUOTE ]

for one, ice cube.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhhhh. Try again, /images/graemlins/wink.gif. We're talking longevity of *rapping* not acting.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

ignoring the "acting," look at his work with nwa, and then his first 3 or 4 solo albums. i think while he has dropped some turds, as a whole he's done more good work than nas (who imo had one classic and then a bunch of turds with some good stuff mixed in). cube had nwa, then amerikkka's most wanted (classic, though not up to par with illmatic imo), and then his next 2 solo albums were very very good, and then the turdery started. nas however had illmatic, and then the turdery started.

lucas9000

02-15-2005, 12:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
what pick don't you agree with? this thread is insanely long and i dont' want to go through it.

but in general from what i've seen its always a underground vs. mainstream thing. its common knowledge that mainstream fans don't appreciate the underground enough and put people like snoop dogg on a pedastool while missing out on a lot of gems out there, while underground heads don't give enough props out to guys like jay-z simply because of his success.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's not that you picked bad stuff...you listed some of my all-time favorites. nevertheless, some of them don't belong in the top 5 best ever imo. it has nothing to do with mainstream v. underground. i enjoy listening to lil scrappy as much as i enjoy listening to akrobatik.

lucas9000

02-15-2005, 12:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
btw i hate when people seriously underrate jay-z (or other successful rappers) due to the amount of success/fame/money they have ammassed.

[/ QUOTE ]

here's the problem... it seems like every time someone says anything bad about jay-z, they're accused of hating or being a backpacker. i like some jay-z stuff a lot, but overall i think he's overrated. is that because he's rich and successful? no. it's because i don't think he has the chops people attribute to him. there are some mr. lif songs i don't like. do i not like them because he's rich and successful? obviously not /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jack of Arcades

02-15-2005, 03:10 PM

I laughed, and I enjoy Atmosphere.

lucas9000

02-15-2005, 03:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Album best able to escape this white-man-pain by creating a new painful subgenre (Nerd Rap): MC Paul Barman "Pallelujah!"

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe mc chris takes this even farther. (btw i am a big mc pb fan.)

Bill Murphy

02-15-2005, 03:39 PM

Goodie54

02-15-2005, 03:48 PM

Eazy-E (Solo) NWA (group)

partygirluk

02-15-2005, 03:59 PM

Vanilla Ice.

Jonny

02-15-2005, 04:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am sad that nobody has even mentioned Nas. His first two albums may be the best 1-2 debut by any rapper. I like Ready to Die slightly better than Illmatic but It Was Written seriously owns Life After Death. Anyway, I may be leaving someone out, but it's an interesting thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

illmatic is definitely top 5 ever. but nas fell off too hard and too fast to be considered best ever imo. nevertheless, i seriously considered nominating him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Illmatic is the best rap album ever.

dr. klopek

02-15-2005, 05:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am sad that nobody has even mentioned Nas. His first two albums may be the best 1-2 debut by any rapper. I like Ready to Die slightly better than Illmatic but It Was Written seriously owns Life After Death. Anyway, I may be leaving someone out, but it's an interesting thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

illmatic is definitely top 5 ever. but nas fell off too hard and too fast to be considered best ever imo. nevertheless, i seriously considered nominating him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Illmatic is the best rap album ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good one.

Vince Young

02-15-2005, 06:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am sad that nobody has even mentioned Nas. His first two albums may be the best 1-2 debut by any rapper. I like Ready to Die slightly better than Illmatic but It Was Written seriously owns Life After Death. Anyway, I may be leaving someone out, but it's an interesting thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

illmatic is definitely top 5 ever. but nas fell off too hard and too fast to be considered best ever imo. nevertheless, i seriously considered nominating him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Illmatic is the best rap album ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good one.

[/ QUOTE ]
It is.

jacki

02-15-2005, 07:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Most surprising song from a now nearly-univerasally beloved rap statesman: "Horny Lil Devil" - Ice Cube

[/ QUOTE ]

My vote is for "White Cave Bitch"

sfer

02-15-2005, 07:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I got burnt out on A) the sameness of playing poker; B) the sameness of these forums. Haven't played a hand in 2+ weeks.

I like OOT only because I can call people [censored] idiots and not stand out. For the most part the posts here are even more redundant than the on-topic forums.

And to be honest, the constant string of HAY GUYS WOULD YOU SEX THIS ATTRACTIVE WEOMAN threads makes me picture a lot of pathetic guys furtively masturbating, which is not an inducement to make myself at home.

You'll prolly see me posting more at the end of this week, but it was really nice to not post or even visit the forums for a week.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's gay.

John Feeney

02-15-2005, 08:04 PM

The Sugar Hill Gang.

Dead

02-15-2005, 08:09 PM

1) Vanilla Ice

2) House of Pain

3) Mc Hammer

4) Will Smith

ThaSaltCracka

02-15-2005, 09:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
reasonable doubt is a classic IMO and deserves to be in the same category with illmatic and ready to die. i'll admitt i became lukewarm for jay after vol 2, but fell back in love with him in the blueprint which i feel is another classic. other than tribe called quest how many rappers out there really have more than one defining album in their careers?

[/ QUOTE ] I haven't really listened to it enough, but really no songs stand out to me atleast. I suppose I will have to give it another listen.