Pwning Limpers - For the under 20 (dollar) crowd

[Sam T.]

Part rant, part question, but here is the problem I am having with pwning limpers in my usual $5-20 buy-in events: limpers don't fold.

This happened repeatedly (on multiple tables in different tournaments, so the issue isn't a loose table image) but I'll give you an example: Blinds at 50/100 (so not inconsequential). I'm on the button with KJs, two limpers in front, I rasie to t500. SB, BB and both limpers call, and we go to the flop five handed, with t2500 in the pot, which is about my stack.

I have a couple of questions:
-You miss the flop (rags, Axx, whatever), and it's checked to you. Under what circumstances are you going to bet? It's a bear of a position, because any real bet is going to commit you, and I can't be the only one who doesn't much like pushing my stack into four players on a pure bluff.

-Is this more characteristic of UB than other sites? I haven't played enough on Stars to find out, but as a rule I have found UB to be far more passive.

I've got a mental note not to get tricky until late in the second hour (you are not going to dynamite that guy off his pair of aces, 9-kicker, no matter what you do, so your pocket Kings are now worthless). Maybe I need to extend this to pwning limpers as well.

Yours,

Steamin' Sam.

[Dave D]

Firstly, you shouldn't have raised w/ KJs, even w/ that position, that's an easy fold for me at that point in the tourney. But, if you had had something more reasonable, like say... I dunno... Aces, then that's an all in post flop, pretty much regardless of the flop. You have to, because like you said, any bet is pretty much going to commit you, and unless you have two pair or better, *one* of those people will probabably have you beat, but folds around too with that kind of pot is good for you too.

edit: you also have to consider that these people arent neccessarily stubornly limping regardless of your raise. They might have pocket pairs, and seeing that there's 3 (or 4, if its the second limper) callers, figure they're getting enough implied odds for their set and it isnt too much to commit of their stack.

[kuro]

You've got to look for the right conditions to pwn the limpers and you just don't have them on loose passive tables early on in low buyin tourneys. If you get 4 callers forget about bluffing all-in with nothing, because someone will likely call you.

Look to do this later in the tourney when more of the idiots have busted out and when you have a deep enough stack to give up on the hand if you get called.

[jd2b2006]

I have found that even at buy-ins of $30 and $50 for SNGs and MTTs that pwning limpers does not work at all in the first three levels. When blinds get to 50/100, you would be amazed at the hands that will call your large bet without a pair or a strong ace. Moreover, if they hit any part of the flop, they will call a large bet as they do not want to feel like they are getting pushed around. What has worked best for me is not to raise limpers when I am near the button with any PP less than Jacks and anything worse than AQs. I will only broaden this range if I have seen my opponent check/fold on the flop in a similar situation.

[JerseyTom]

Sorry to be dumb...

... but what does it mean to "pwn" someone or something?


Tom

[jon_1van]

I play a few 20+2 NLHE MTT on Party. I've been pretty effective at getting limpers to fold....but its been with all-in bets.

[Newman]

Somehow "owned" turned in to "pwned". I guess it's because the "p" key is so close to the "o" key on the keyboard and pwned stuck somehow.

[Absolution]

Some tips I've found through experience:

- Beware early position limpers, go all-in if you want to pwn them so they can't take it away from you.

- Beware big stacks if you're stealing or pwning limpers. In low stakes especially they will play back at you.

- Watch the table texture for a while before you start trying to pwn them. Surely people have raised limpers before - what did they do? If you are a table of passive cold-callers, just forget it. Remember though, you don't need to do this because you get to see flops for cheap, even from early position. It balances out in that case I find. Count how many are seeing the flop to get an estimate. Also, count how many pots go to showdown. If both these numbers are high, just sit tight.

[Dave D]

The lore is that it was during an online game of Quake 2 at least 5 years ago, someone said "I pwned you" or something like that and it just stuck.

[Unparagoned]

Not to imply anything one way or another; however, let's say you have AK in the same position (for all those who don't like the KJs raise). You raise, get called and the flop misses you. Now what? And if you're going to raise KJs here, don't we basically have to treat it as AK in this sort of circumstance?

[vicpanic]

Maybe stop trying to "pwn" limpers, and start trying to win tournaments.

[Potowame]

Are you saying that we should play the cards.

# Raise only group one hands , your sure to be ahead than

# Never represent a hand you dont hold..

# Positional raises are for donkeys..

# Play weak tight its the best..

/images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[vicpanic]

Actually i didnt say any of that. Tournaments arent about whos dick is bigger, its about winning. So instead of trying to "Pwn" limpers, try to "Pwn" pots.

[Potowame]

I dont think Wiener size has anything to do with it.

Raising limpers can be a very +EV play if done properly. It takes skill to know when this will work, and This is what the post is about.

Ie How to win pots from weak limpers..

[KKbluff]

Personally in these lower limit tourneys i recommend playing pretty tight and only value betting when the situation arises. Value bets here are key since you will almost always get a good amount of callers. Once you hit level 3 or 4 then I would consider if its checked to you to make a raise even if youve missed your flop.

This article is also VERY helpful and can help answer some of your problems although its focus is on blind steam theorem Bind Steal Theorem (http://teamfu.freeshell.org/tournament/theorem_blind_stealing.html)

hope it helps!