deep stack set play 5-10 bike

[riverboatking]

i have ~5K villian has me covered.
villian is very tight.
he is also steamed at me because he misplayed a hand earlier vs. me and ended up losing a big pot to me (he slowplayed overpair and let me hit a set).

ok.
7 players see the flop for 25 each.
tag along in MP with 66.

flop comes K76 rainbow.
i bet 125, tight player calls, crazy loose player calls (i now have position, villian was the SB, crazy guy was UTG).

turn comes Q still rainbow.
i bet 400, villian CR to 1000.

have at it boys.

[fsuplayer]

he has some sort of two pair.

reraising here lets him get away cheap.

smooth call and push on the river after he bets.

[JFB37]

Did the loose player call the c/r or fold?

[Wayfare]

You think he is calling a push on the river with hands you are ahead of? Does anyone find the thought of playing 1000x BB pot with bottom set sort of a bad idea?

I personally would call the raise and then check behind on the river.

[AZK]

Who did the raising preflop? I assume not villian? I probably call the raise and evaluate the river. Try to see how much he still likes his hand after I called his check-raise. If villian is tight he would reraise KK preflop unless he made the original raise. That being said, I suppose I see two potential hands here assuming the board is rainbow. KQ or 77, anything else? (No way this is AA if he did in fact make the raise preflop, even though I've seen it before) Seems like a great play for 77 to make, check/call flop, raise turn. You must have an aggressive image if he check-raised your turn bet, I would think most sets would lead the turn for fear of it geting checked around. I think this might just be one of those plays where you have to make a read on the river and there is no right or wrong answer. I think reraising the turn is bad though, I can't quite come up with why yet. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable can give you a better response...either way I'm interested to hear what happened.

PS: What kind of a raise is 25 with a 5/10 structure, strictly pot building?

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
You think he is calling a push on the river with hands you are ahead of? Does anyone find the thought of playing 1000x BB pot with bottom set sort of a bad idea?


[/ QUOTE ]

fair 'nuff, i didnt see he was quite that deep.

but... [ QUOTE ]

I personally would call the raise and then check behind on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he checks the river, I aint.

[turnipmonster]

I agree if he checks the river it's a value bet. however I think the chances of him checking the river are very slim.

--turnipmonster

[riverboatking]

yeah the original raiser and the raise amount were both idiotic. but the villian was not the original raiser.

i do have an aggressive image as i am usually either raising, betting or folding, i don't do a lot of check calling.

the river was a another K making the final board K67QK.

he pushed and i folded.
it was funny because when he smoothcalled my flop bet something in the back of my mind kept saying....i think this guy has a set of sevens, and i almost checked behind on the turn.
then i almost folded to his raise, but it just seemed so dam weak.
the king on the river really bailed me out...i knew he didn't have AK or KK because he would have reraised preflop, but as it was i couldn't beat anything but a bluff....KQ got there and 77 was already there.

so i folded and later the guy who was sitting next to him (they were both filipino) told me that he had said to him, while i was delibirating with my cards face up on the river that "i'm gonna bust this punk, no way he folds"

anyways...i'm not so sure that this post had any real value but i guess i just posted it because it was one of those rare instances where i just felt like i was beat but still couldn't bring myself to fold on the turn because i had a set. i think it also illustrates how much things change when you start getting really deep relative to the blinds.

[turnipmonster]

a lot of important info missing here. would he call 20 bucks with KQ from SB? did a crazy guy raise, and would this make villian more likely to call?

your only worry is 77 and are getting paid by KQ, but it sounds like he won't get frisky with a draw?

--turnipmonster

[riverboatking]

sorry my post was so lame and lacking relevant info, i just got done with an 18 hour marathon session that saw me go from down 5K to up 3k, so i'm a little bit out of it.
i don't usually play that long up or down, but the game was so full of morons i couldn't leave.
i was playing with a bunch of gus hansen wannabes, and at first they got me good, calling all-ins with crappy draws and getting there,
but luckily the cards broke even in the end.

[Jason Strasser]

I have just read this post.

Eep. At this point I am very scared. There is really only one hand I suppose that will pay you off, so I really don't think reraising the turn has much value, especially with stacks this deep. If this guy is really tight, then I really don't see a huge problem with folding the turn. It sounds incredibly tight, but I think that's what I'd do.

OTOH, you are getting a fairly decent price to see the river. Obviously you cant call planning to fold most rivers, but it is live. If you think there is a chance he is making a move because of your recent history (his steaming), or has KQ, or if you have a beat on him and can sense his strength on the river, then I dont see a problem with calling the turn raise.

I do expect to be beat here a large amount of the time though.

-Jason

P.s. just read that the river was a K. I'd have a real problem calling any sort of river bet unless I thought he was on a move. He was tight right?? Fold the turn /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[turnipmonster]

I didn't see the results until after I posted, nice laydown.

--turnipmonster

[turnipmonster]

I would have major problems folding the turn for 600 more. even a tight player would play KQ like this, and KQs for 20 bucks preflop is a fairly common call, even for a tight player. the only realistic hand he is behind on the turn is 77, and there are twice as many ways he can have KQ.

--turnipmonster

[fireitup123]

"villian is very tight. "

So what would he be check raising you with that you can beat?

"he is also steamed at me because he misplayed a hand earlier vs. me and ended up losing a big pot to me (he slowplayed overpair and let me hit a set)."

What makes you say that?


"turn comes Q still rainbow.
i bet 400, villian CR to 1000.

have at it boys."

They really are having at it - lot's of replies. I have not read the replies yet but I think you have a pretty simple hand here.

ON the turn, you have 2 options:
1. Call and see what he does on the turn
2. Fold
That is after you bet. You could have checked the turn.

You said he's a tight player, so I would lean to folding. However, you are in position, which makes a call more favorable. This is a player dependent hand - the money is super-deep. It all depends on your read of the opponent whether to call or fold on the turn.

[Ulysses]

Well, the river made your decision a lot easier. KQs is obviously the most likely hand which you can beat on the turn.

What if the river were a deuce? Call a push? If not, how much do you call?

[AZK]

$1000?

[quix0tic]

Playing in the game on the following day with villain to my right, the table consensus seemed to be either 77 or QQ. The guy was trying to claim he had 89 and was semibluffing; this was good for a laugh as I had been playing with him for a few hours and 89 is essentially impossibile. Listening to him explain how he was bluffing, I am quite sure the 6s were no good.

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, the river made your decision a lot easier. KQs is obviously the most likely hand which you can beat on the turn.

What if the river were a deuce? Call a push? If not, how much do you call?

[/ QUOTE ]

most obvious yes, but this guy could have a suited K or Q which flopped two pair. after the river push, you can rule out the suited queen, but i call up to $1500 or so on the river.

[Lawrence Ng]

Well played.

Lawrence

[FoxwoodsFiend]

Honestly, if there's ever a time to not be too excited about bottom set it's when the tightest player at the table smooth-calls your flop bet then check-raises barely more than the min. I would immediately slow down, just call, see what he does on the river. Maybe even act like you're considering folding a marginal hand so that he doesn't think he can get too much out of you on the river if he does have you beat at the moment. If he bets the river hard you have to fold, but if he puts in a medium-sized bet you have to call.
By the way, not only is 77 a distinct possibility but so is KK. It's not unheard of for people in the small blind to slow-play KK to a pre-flop raiser looking to trap on any board with no ace and having nobody see it coming if they hit a set. I don't know if villain is that crafty but it's far from out of character for a tight player to try disguising the strength of his hand.

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
Playing in the game on the following day with villain to my right, the table consensus seemed to be either 77 or QQ. The guy was trying to claim he had 89 and was semibluffing; this was good for a laugh as I had been playing with him for a few hours and 89 is essentially impossibile. Listening to him explain how he was bluffing, I am quite sure the 6s were no good.

[/ QUOTE ]

two things, first of all i've played with him before and i know that if my hand was good he would have showed the bluff to needle me, thats just they type of person he is.

however that is all moot because tony, the filipino prop, told me that the villian told him in filipino he had 77 and was going to bust me.

and diablo, if the river bricked off i probably would have called up to 1K, but i can tell you i was already mentally preparing myself to let the hand go if he pushed the river as i was calling the turn.

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, not only is 77 a distinct possibility but so is KK. It's not unheard of for people in the small blind to slow-play KK to a pre-flop raiser looking to trap on any board with no ace and having nobody see it coming if they hit a set. I don't know if villain is that crafty but it's far from out of character for a tight player to try disguising the strength of his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

no way he slowplays KK out of position vs. 7 limpers.
maybe someone would but not him.
i really thought he had 77, with KQ being a very slight possibility, however once the river came it didn't matter which.
and by the way it did take me a decent amount of time to call the turn, i wasn't acting i was really deciding whether or not to fold because i felt i was beat, however i decided to call the 600 more and see what he did on the river.
if i was out of position i probably would have folded the turn.
what i find amusing is when the K came on the river he immediately went all in, he didn't even pause to consider the fact that i might have KQ...this is why he is a very tight but not so great player.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
and diablo, if the river bricked off i probably would have called up to 1K, but i can tell you i was already mentally preparing myself to let the hand go if he pushed the river as i was calling the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're only going to call up to $1k on a river blank, I think you should fold on the turn. Calling and folding to a river blank push is fine.

[sawseech]

looks like KQ to me
but i wouldn't be sure enough to reraise

[AZK]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're only going to call up to $1k on a river blank, I think you should fold on the turn. Calling and folding to a river blank push is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this is exactly what I was thinking when I read his reply. If that's the case, what is the "correct" amount to call on the river given the size of the pot/stack sizes?

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're only going to call up to $1k on a river blank, I think you should fold on the turn. Calling and folding to a river blank push is fine.


[/ QUOTE ]

i guess i came up with 1K because that is about how much i thought this particular player would bet w/ top two on the river.
if he pushed i can put him on the set.

[coltrane]

given the actual river card in the hand, are you at all surprised that villain bet ~$4k with 77?....after all, YOU could've had KQ.....

move in f*ck brain...is there any other play