Put myself in a tough decision. . .what to do? [Archive]

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ReDeYES88

02-14-2005, 09:45 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t3960)
MP (t1185)
Button (t240)
Hero (t1300)
BB (t1315)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls t300, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Didn't want to raise with the big stack limp, but just couldn't seem to lay this one down. I complete. Very lucky that BB didn't overpush.

Flop: (t900) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks.

Yikes.

Turn: (t900) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets t300, BB calls t300, UTG folds.

Where am I?

River: (t1500) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t715 (All-In),

Hero?

Final Pot: t2915

Bigwig

02-14-2005, 10:27 AM

Based on the final pot, I see that you called.

I fold preflop.

Phil Van Sexton

02-14-2005, 10:54 AM

Fold pre-flop. Possibly push on the flop. Definately push on the turn if you check the flop.

ReDeYES88

02-14-2005, 10:10 PM

Ignoring all of the play up until the river (because that's probably enough fodder for a lengthy "what the f*ck were you thinking post and I had several opportunities to avoid this situation), what do you reasonably put villan on based on his play up to this point?

wudrow

02-15-2005, 01:36 AM

Maybe i'm still to new to the game to think this but after just calling the blinds and checks, would one not assume K/J would possibly be best hand and raise, probably push on pre-flop.

The Yugoslavian

02-15-2005, 02:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t3960)
MP (t1185)
Button (t240)
Hero (t1300)
BB (t1315)

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This is good position for this hand anyway. You will already know the big stacks play and be able to pound a fellow medium stack if you choose to.

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Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.

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I'm pushing if it's folded to me.

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UTG calls t300, 2 folds,

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Hmmm, so much for open pushing vs. the BB. The bad news is that without a read on the big stack you don't know if he just is limp happy or is loose or tricky enough to limp call witha monster or any semi-'decent' hand. The good news is that you know at least one middle stack and the big stack will be involved post flop in this hand. This is +$EV for you. I'd fold here unless I had a pretty strong read to go on for the big stack and that he was bleeding chips to anyone who went allin.

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Hero completes

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Hmmm, don't like this. I don't like this at all. You're out of position when the BB checks, if he raises you have to fold and on almost any flop you'll have a very hard time being comfortable making a good decision.

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BB checks.

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Some good news. But it's not nearly enough good news for your ragged hand.

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Didn't want to raise with the big stack limp, but just couldn't seem to lay this one down. I complete. Very lucky that BB didn't overpush.

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I dont' know about *very lucky*. This will happen more often than not. You're unlucky you didn't have the Phil Ivey 'Are you sure you want to call' window pop up to warn you against your SB completion.

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Flop: (t900) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)

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Possibly the best flop for you outside of Kxx uncoordinated board. Most players will be raising with these blinds, not calling, with an A. So, pushing here may not be that bad of an option. Of course, I'd much rather do it after two folds to me. I would almost always check/fold here.

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Hero checks

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Nicely done.

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BB checks, UTG checks.

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Well, looks like no one has an A or the big stack is still slowplaying his monster.

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Yikes.

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Yikes in you think you could have just bought the pot? Perhaps.

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Turn: (t900) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)

Hero bets t300

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Errr, I think the pot is big enough that you need to push given the turn of events (again, read on big stack could determine if he limps AK, AA or KK. Or, check/fold I guess, but I'd rather push here. I don't like a minbet - bad players call it and good players abuse it.

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BB calls t300, UTG folds.

Where am I?

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Likely behind, but you'll never know b/c you prolly need to check/fold the river here /images/graemlins/frown.gif. And have just bled off tons of chips to boot. Again, this is where *any* read is *very* nice on the big stack.

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River: (t1500) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t715 (All-In),

Hero?

Final Pot: t2915

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Hmmm, this river card makes a push or call tempting. I think I'd be done with this hand after the called turn.

Perhaps this can be a lesson on why not to limp KT the way you did? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Remember, you *gain* $EV by not even doing *anything* here.

Yugoslav

ReDeYES88

02-15-2005, 10:51 AM

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Maybe i'm still to new to the game to think this but after just calling the blinds and checks, would one not assume K/J would possibly be best hand and raise, probably push on pre-flop.

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One might, except the big stack had been open limping every time I was in the SB, and had shown a good mix of mid-range hands (89s, 66) as well as high pockets. The BB had been extremely passive up to this point as well, and I read him as tight-weak, raising with A8+ and any broadway. Under most circumstances (i.e. a big stack that typically either mucks or raise, and only limps with the strong hands) I either push or muck here, but this time I thought that I'd mix things up and spend 150 to complete.

ReDeYES88

02-15-2005, 11:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t3960)
MP (t1185)
Button (t240)
Hero (t1300)
BB (t1315)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is good position for this hand anyway. You will already know the big stacks play and be able to pound a fellow medium stack if you choose to.

[ QUOTE ]

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.

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I'm pushing if it's folded to me.

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UTG calls t300, 2 folds,

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Hmmm, so much for open pushing vs. the BB. The bad news is that without a read on the big stack you don't know if he just is limp happy or is loose or tricky enough to limp call witha monster or any semi-'decent' hand. The good news is that you know at least one middle stack and the big stack will be involved post flop in this hand. This is +$EV for you. I'd fold here unless I had a pretty strong read to go on for the big stack and that he was bleeding chips to anyone who went allin.

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Hero completes

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Hmmm, don't like this. I don't like this at all. You're out of position when the BB checks, if he raises you have to fold and on almost any flop you'll have a very hard time being comfortable making a good decision.

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BB checks.

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Some good news. But it's not nearly enough good news for your ragged hand.

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Didn't want to raise with the big stack limp, but just couldn't seem to lay this one down. I complete. Very lucky that BB didn't overpush.

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I dont' know about *very lucky*. This will happen more often than not. You're unlucky you didn't have the Phil Ivey 'Are you sure you want to call' window pop up to warn you against your SB completion.

Agreed

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Flop: (t900) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)

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Possibly the best flop for you outside of Kxx uncoordinated board. Most players will be raising with these blinds, not calling, with an A. So, pushing here may not be that bad of an option. Of course, I'd much rather do it after two folds to me. I would almost always check/fold here.

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Hero checks

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Nicely done.

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BB checks, UTG checks.

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Well, looks like no one has an A or the big stack is still slowplaying his monster.

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Yikes.

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Yikes in you think you could have just bought the pot? Perhaps.

Yeah, and yikes as in I still don't know where I'm at. A bet by others would have actually done me a favor and I would have released the hand.

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Turn: (t900) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)

Hero bets t300

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Errr, I think the pot is big enough that you need to push given the turn of events (again, read on big stack could determine if he limps AK, AA or KK. Or, check/fold I guess, but I'd rather push here. I don't like a minbet - bad players call it and good players abuse it.

I thought about pushing, but then I also thought that more than likely I don't get called unless I'm beat. I thought that a min bet would give the others a chance to get out, or reraise, and I would definately know where I was in the hand. I was wrong (kinda).

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BB calls t300, UTG folds.

Where am I?

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Likely behind, but you'll never know b/c you prolly need to check/fold the river here /images/graemlins/frown.gif. And have just bled off tons of chips to boot. Again, this is where *any* read is *very* nice on the big stack.

I don't necessairly think that I'm behind. I don't believe that an Ace would give this many free cards with a two flush flop, and typically would have either bet or re-raised here. I honestly think that my only worries are a K with a better kicker.

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River: (t1500) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t715 (All-In),

Hero? Thinks that this bet smacks of desparation from the BB. I really didn't think that he had been slow playing from the flop onwards. Hero grits his teeth and calls after spending a good amount of time in the tank.

Final Pot: t2915

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BB shows 74 spades. Busted flush draw. MHIG, and I vow to never put myself in that position again. It's nice when you don't actually lose money to learn a lesson.

Hmmm, this river card makes a push or call tempting. I think I'd be done with this hand after the called turn.

Perhaps this can be a lesson on why not to limp KT the way you did? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Remember, you *gain* $EV by not even doing *anything* here.

Agreed again.
Yugoslav

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