Unreal Pot Did How would you play it? [Archive]

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MoodyA

02-14-2005, 04:20 AM

This table was very loose very agressive...Is this the right way to play this hand?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 caps, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (29 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (7 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 raises, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (20.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 bets $11 (All-In), CO calls, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (27.10 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players, 1 all-in)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, CO calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 30.10 BB

billyjex

02-14-2005, 04:41 AM

Why are you not capping PF?

I think on the turn I would raise to try to shut out players with lone aces (from their gutshot or A draw), fold to a 3-bet from any player.

beachbum

02-14-2005, 04:46 AM

Cap preflop without a second thought. The button and SB have given you a great opportunity to protect your hand while building the pot at the same time. Against 6 other players you'll lose with KK your fair share of the time so at least make the limpers cold call 3 more bets before they see a flop.

MoodyA

02-14-2005, 04:59 AM

SB bets into me on the turn Making me think wheel A4 or another set(surprised me on the river with a check) not to mention the danger of AA. the cap preflop was a crucial decision, forcing players to cold call three bets to protect my hand is a major mistake, but not what beat me

dblgutshot

02-14-2005, 05:34 AM

This whole hand is a really weird line to take.

I think a raise on the turn is in order. SB 3-bet preflop so its hard to put him on A3 or trip 4's.

chesspain

02-14-2005, 08:01 AM

You MUST raise the turn. Since SB three-bet preflop, I highly doubt that he has A3, 4x, or a set. Even though you can't protect your hand against anyone with any type of draw, raising does protect you against someone calling with a pocket pair, since when you only call you are making it correct for someone to call with a two-outer. Although you may be up against AA, SB could easily have JJ/QQ. Nonetheless, you still need to put in that extra bet right there in order to maximize your chances of winning the hand.

pudley4

02-14-2005, 02:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This table was very loose very agressive...Is this the right way to play this hand?

(Hand history...)

[/ QUOTE ]

When your hand starts "KK", no overcards flop, the words "hero calls" show up five times, and the words "hero raises" show up zero, the answer is a resounding

NO!

timprov

02-14-2005, 03:23 PM

I think I keep raising this until +1, +2, or CO wakes up. MP3 might have AA, but with only 4BB in his stack you need to get him allin as fast as possible to get value out of everyone else.

SB's turn bet is very fishy -- he has to know MP3 is going to bet this, so you'd think a check-raise would be almost automatic.

cnfuzzd

02-14-2005, 03:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This table was very loose very agressive...Is this the right way to play this hand?

(Hand history...)

[/ QUOTE ]

When your hand starts "KK", no overcards flop, the words "hero calls" show up five times, and the words "hero raises" show up zero, the answer is a resounding

NO!

[/ QUOTE ]

Nick C

02-14-2005, 03:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you not capping PF?

I think on the turn I would raise to try to shut out players with lone aces (from their gutshot or A draw), fold to a 3-bet from any player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero would need to know he was specifically up against quad fours to fold if someone 3-bet his raise on the turn.

Rafael_Luiz

02-14-2005, 03:34 PM

My read on MP3's limp-cap is he has a weak hand and wanted to see a cheap flop, and then when he got raise - reraised, he decided he wanted to commit the rest of his stack to the pot out of frustration. That is why I doubt he had AA. More likely it was a set of 5's or Axs that could have hit big with that board. I think you have to raise that turn to figure out where you stand going into the river, and you also needed to cap preflop to protect.

Rafael_Luiz

02-14-2005, 03:36 PM

Oh yeah - and also i don't like the slowdown on the flop, mainly because i don't think the shortstacked limp-capper in MP3 had a real hand, and you don't want to give up a cheap ace to those people calling in between your bets with overs.

meep_42

02-14-2005, 03:47 PM

Is this flop a "wait until the turn" hand, a la SSH?

Even a raise on the turn (after almost everyone puts in 2 bets on the flop) doesn't protect from gutshots.

-d

Sarge85

02-14-2005, 04:27 PM

Cap PF
Raise The Flop
Raise The Turn

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

PokerBob

02-14-2005, 04:30 PM

Put in the last bet on the flop.
I raise the turn.

MoodyA

02-15-2005, 12:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I keep raising this until +1, +2, or CO wakes up. MP3 might have AA, but with only 4BB in his stack you need to get him allin as fast as possible to get value out of everyone else.

SB's turn bet is very fishy -- he has to know MP3 is going to bet this, so you'd think a check-raise would be almost automatic.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a great read on the hand, I like that thought of getting him all in to get value out of the others.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 caps, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (29 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (7 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 raises, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (20.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 bets $11 (All-In), CO calls, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (27.10 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players, 1 all-in)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, CO calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 30.10 BB
Main Pot: 27.10 BB, between MP3, CO, SB and Hero. > Pot won by MP3 (27.10 BB).
Pot 2: 3 BB, between CO, SB and Hero. > Pot won by Hero (3 BB).

Results in white below: 
SB has Jh Ah (one pair, fours).
Hero has Kc Kh (two pair, kings and fours).
MP3 has As Ac (two pair, aces and fours).
CO has Kd Th (one pair, fours).
Outcome: MP3 wins 27.10 BB. Hero wins 3 BB.

Alexthegreat

02-15-2005, 01:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Cap PF
Raise The Flop
Raise The Turn

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo!!

Alexthegreat

02-15-2005, 01:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Is this flop a "wait until the turn" hand, a la SSH?

Even a raise on the turn (after almost everyone puts in 2 bets on the flop) doesn't protect from gutshots.

-d

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot is huge already, you aren't going to be able to protect your hand by waiting until the turn...Pump the flop as much as you can, and continue to push on the turn....If you had shown more aggression on these two streets you could have made much more than the 3 BBs you did