Line check, K9s in the CO [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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NateDog

02-13-2005, 10:33 PM

SB is 31/0/.20 through about 30
MP2 is 40/8/1.8 through 100

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB bets, BB calls, MP2 calls, Hero raises, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, MP2 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (9 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (12 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

shadow29

02-13-2005, 10:34 PM

turn and river = /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

NateDog

02-13-2005, 10:38 PM

Fold the turn to the lead out after the cap?

Shillx

02-13-2005, 10:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
turn and river = /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The only other line is to raise the turn, call a 3-bet and fold the river UI. I can't see how we could raise the turn and then calldown UI and show a profit.

Brad

NateDog

02-13-2005, 10:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
turn and river = /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The only other line is to raise the turn, call a 3-bet and fold the river UI. I can't see how we could raise the turn and then calldown UI and show a profit.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you calling this river UI?

LoaferGee12

02-13-2005, 10:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold the turn to the lead out after the cap?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Gotta call down here.

shadow29

02-13-2005, 10:50 PM

Shillx

02-13-2005, 10:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
turn and river = /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The only other line is to raise the turn, call a 3-bet and fold the river UI. I can't see how we could raise the turn and then calldown UI and show a profit.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you calling this river UI?

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling down is fine imo. He probably has a set, but he could have 2 lesser pair. We also have a chance to draw against 44 on the river so we don't want to raise ourself out of a four out draw. Paying 2 BB to showdown seems fine to me. Paying 4 BB to showdown seems crazy.

Brad

GrunchCan

02-13-2005, 10:55 PM

Take a close look at MP2's action on the flop. He's not bluffing. He's got a super-class hand, or close to it.

You were good to cap the flop, b/c he's diagramming AK, which you beat. But that turn A is kryptonite to you. I'll usually bet-call then fold the river UI, like shill said. It seems like there might be a cheaper way, however.

Shillx

02-13-2005, 10:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Take a close look at MP2's action on the flop. He's not bluffing. He's got a super-class hand, or close to it.

You were good to cap the flop, b/c he's diagramming AK, which you beat. But that turn A is kryptonite to you. I'll usually bet-call then fold the river UI, like shill said. It seems like there might be a cheaper way, however.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? A 40/8 guy doesn't have AK in this spot. He either has a set or 2-pair.

Brad

NateDog

02-13-2005, 10:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
turn and river = /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The only other line is to raise the turn, call a 3-bet and fold the river UI. I can't see how we could raise the turn and then calldown UI and show a profit.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you calling this river UI?

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling down is fine imo. He probably has a set, but he could have 2 lesser pair. We also have a chance to draw against 44 on the river so we don't want to raise ourself out of a four out draw. Paying 2 BB to showdown seems fine to me. Paying 4 BB to showdown seems crazy.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Shill. I'm tryin' to shed the weak-tight, and the calldowns are where it seems most obvious. I couldn't think of a better line at the time. If he checks the turn, I'm obviously betting here. If C/R'd are you folding there, or calling one more to see the river? It's still 2 BB, but the probability of my hand being good went down the toilet UI. Correct?

LoaferGee12

02-13-2005, 11:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Take a close look at MP2's action on the flop. He's not bluffing. He's got a super-class hand, or close to it.

You were good to cap the flop, b/c he's diagramming AK, which you beat. But that turn A is kryptonite to you. I'll usually bet-call then fold the river UI, like shill said. It seems like there might be a cheaper way, however.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assumign you mean raise-call. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to just call down. You only put in 2 more bets as opposed to 3 and you still get to a showdown.

NateDog

02-13-2005, 11:00 PM

GrunchCan

02-13-2005, 11:01 PM

Good point

GrunchCan

02-13-2005, 11:02 PM

Yea, that was a misread.

Stuey

02-13-2005, 11:31 PM

When you flop 2 pair are you betting/raising to protect your hand or build the pot? What about calling the bet and looking to check raise on the turn? With no preflop raising we feel confident we are only behind vs trips correct? I see the other players are LP and LA what image do they have of you? If you have been tight the check raise on the turn might work better. I am a new player so please explain why my play would be wrong so I have a reason to stop doing it! Thanks
Ps UI=unimproved?

NateDog

02-13-2005, 11:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When you flop 2 pair are you betting/raising to protect your hand or build the pot? What about calling the bet and looking to check raise on the turn? With no preflop raising we feel confident we are only behind vs trips correct? I see the other players are LP and LA what image do they have of you? If you have been tight the check raise on the turn might work better. I am a new player so please explain why my play would be wrong so I have a reason to stop doing it! Thanks
Ps UI=unimproved?

[/ QUOTE ]
At the nano limit I play at, I don't think people are all that concerned with my image. My vpip is below 20% and preflop raise is near 8%. Postflop aggression is just over 2. (I don't know if you have pokertracker yet, but I suggest you get it. You can read the sticky to define these terms). If they were paying attention, they would know that I have a hand here. FWIW SB called down with KQo.

I posted this hand because I had a horrible run today (-30BB in 200 hands), but I didn't feel I was playing badly. This hand in particular stood out, as I am really working on making opponents make mistakes against me. I am betting and raising the flop here to protect my made hand and capitalize on my pot equity. This is a realtively drawless board, and I raised and capped to get money in the pot. When MP lead into me on the turn, I know he has a decent hand. SB is just along for the ride. I think now that I am probably on a 4 outer, against either 99 or 44. I want to get to the showdown as cheaply as possible now, and maybe, just maybe he's got K4 or 94.

Yes, UI means unimproved.

Nate

GrunchCan

02-13-2005, 11:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
what image do they have of you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Usually none whatsoever.

Dead

02-13-2005, 11:46 PM

-30 BB in 200 hands is not that horrible at .05/.10. I play here myself and the variance is wicked.

I've had 80 BB downswings over 300 hands.

Did you lose to 44?

NateDog

02-13-2005, 11:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what image do they have of you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Usually none whatsoever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for confirming my suspicions.

GrunchCan

02-13-2005, 11:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I've had 80 BB downswings over 300 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ain't nuthin. Iv'e forgotten bigger downswings.

Dead

02-13-2005, 11:50 PM

I didn't say it was gigantic. I was just pointing out the enormous variance at .05/.10

NateDog

02-13-2005, 11:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
-30 BB in 200 hands is not that horrible at .05/.10. I play here myself and the variance is wicked.

I've had 80 BB downswings over 300 hands.

Did you lose to 44?

[/ QUOTE ]

Abso-freaking-lutley lost to 44. I've probably got you in my DB. Not too many money-bags around here, myself included. I've only been at .05/.10 for about 1200 hands, but I've got 10K at .02/.04. Working it up slowwwwwwwww. I was actually down 50BB at one point today, but it turned around. My premium hands just weren't holding up. I know, I know, variance is a bitch.
/images/graemlins/grin.gif
nate

GrunchCan

02-13-2005, 11:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I've got 10K at .02/.04.

[/ QUOTE ]

You could be ready for a stat check.

Dead

02-14-2005, 12:00 AM

Try and guess who I am(PM me if you can figure it out). I am coded as a moneybag, formerly an eagle.

My VP$IP is around 18-19, my PFR% is around 10%, and my total aggression factor is around 2.7. =0

I play almost every day.

NateDog

02-14-2005, 12:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've got 10K at .02/.04.

[/ QUOTE ]

You could be ready for a stat check.

[/ QUOTE ]

I put one up at 8000 or so, when I got the 300BB for .05/.10. Its here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/favlinker.php?Cat=&Entry=67602&F_Board=micro&Threa d=1674643&partnumber=&postmarker=). I have since raised my aggression #'s to 2./, 2.0, and 2.1.

Dead

02-14-2005, 12:04 AM

Consider raising more preflop. Like near ~10%. I've upped mine to 10% from like 7% and I like the results.

Stuey

02-14-2005, 12:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My vpip is below 20% and preflop raise is near 8%. Postflop aggression is just over 2.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I posted this hand because I had a horrible run today (-30BB in 200 hands), but I didn't feel I was playing badly.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have PT and I fear guys like you. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif This is just a unlucky run for you. I still like check/raising the turn even though I don't know why lol. Players at low limits might not pay attention well but it is hard not to notice a solid player making a strong play at the pot. I would even call it down after a 3 bet response I got a lot to learn. Hope I can learn it here for cheap. gl

NateDog

02-14-2005, 12:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My vpip is below 20% and preflop raise is near 8%. Postflop aggression is just over 2.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I posted this hand because I had a horrible run today (-30BB in 200 hands), but I didn't feel I was playing badly.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have PT and I fear guys like you. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif This is just a unlucky run for you. I still like check/raising the turn even though I don't know why lol. Players at low limits might not pay attention well but it is hard not to notice a solid player making a strong play at the pot. I would even call it down after a 3 bet response I got a lot to learn. Hope I can learn it here for cheap. gl

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe me Stuey, you want to play with me. I suck. /images/graemlins/confused.gif You'll learn a lot here, even just by reading. I like to post my losers /images/graemlins/grin.gif

moose47

02-14-2005, 12:16 AM

I'm beginning to understand this variance thing that you speak of. I just started playing limit a couple weeks ago and had no problem winning 300BB at .02/.04. I moved up to .05/.10 last week and it seems like I've hit a wall. I'm currently trying to recover from a 75 BB downswing over the course of 350 hands. Even today, I had a winning session but it just didn't feel right. Probably since I only won 5 hands out of 200. Anyway through 1600 hands I have a whopping winrate of 0.7 BB/100. I'm understanding what I was told about nano-limits trying your patience now....

**wanders off muttering something about the long run....

NateDog

02-14-2005, 12:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm beginning to understand this variance thing that you speak of. I just started playing limit a couple weeks ago and had no problem winning 300BB at .02/.04. I moved up to .05/.10 last week and it seems like I've hit a wall. I'm currently trying to recover from a 75 BB downswing over the course of 350 hands. Even today, I had a winning session but it just didn't feel right. Probably since I only won 5 hands out of 200. Anyway through 1600 hands I have a whopping winrate of 0.7 BB/100. I'm understanding what I was told about nano-limits trying your patience now....

**wanders off muttering something about the long run....

[/ QUOTE ]

If your name is the same at Stars, I believe I've helped your cause recently /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

moose47

02-14-2005, 12:39 AM

Yes my name is the same, and if I recall correctly you took some money from me today with KK on your first hand. So, um, yeah if you could just give me 0.20 we will call it even and move on...

NateDog

02-14-2005, 12:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes my name is the same, and if I recall correctly you took some money from me today with KK on your first hand. So, um, yeah if you could just give me 0.20 we will call it even and move on...

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you love KK on the first hand?

moose47

02-14-2005, 01:09 AM

It's certainly a nice welcome to the table. I also like junk hands that see free flops as evidenced by my first hand at that same table...

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.05.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (9 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (9 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Hero raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (16.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets $0.1 (All-In), MP2 calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 21.50 BB

MP1 has Tc 7c (three of a kind, sevens).
MP2 has Qd Qh (two pair, queens and sevens).
Hero has 6c 7d (full house, sevens full of sixes).
Outcome: Hero wins 21.50 BB.