Pleasant blind defense hand...

[chesspain]

Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

No read on the Button.

Preflop: chesspain is SB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">chesspain 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">chesspain bets</font>, Button calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">chesspain bets</font>, Button calls.

River: (6.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">chesspain bets</font>, Button calls.

[i]I felt so unsatisfied when the hand was over. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif Is there any place I should have gone for a checkraise?

[dblgutshot]

I usually checkraise this turn. There isn't much chance he will outdraw me if he takes the free card. Also many will bet when checked to.

If he takes the free card, he is more likely to call a river bet with A high since I showed weakness on the turn.

[Nick C]

I used to go for checkraises during hands like this one more often than I do now. But then I ran into a stretch of hands where it seemed like what was happening far too often was that I would go for a turn checkraise, only to have my opponent check behind on the turn and then call my river bet with a hand I was pretty sure he would have called me with on both big streets. (Also, of course, having someone call down after a turn checkraise when he might have raised the turn and then called down after a 3-bet wouldn't be good.)

I do wonder if I've overcompensated in the other direction and have now gotten too straightforward, though. Also, I wonder if I don't go for enough river checkraises.

[mr pink]

do you normally 3bet KTo here against a steal raise?

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
I usually checkraise this turn. There isn't much chance he will outdraw me if he takes the free card. Also many will bet when checked to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't get fancy just bet and hope he gets silly and raises you somewhere along the line.

[Sadat X]

I like the straightforward approach here.

[sthief09]

check-raises are fun and nice, but remember, a portion of the check raises you pull off come from guys who were going to raise you anyway. so sometimes, you gain a bet, but sometimes you miss one even while pulling one off. I'm a huge hypocrite though, because I'm 100% sure I would've tried to pull one off. it's an ego and discipline thing. I'm sure it's costing me money

[adamstewart]

Thing is....

Let's say you check the turn, but he checks it through - S[/i]HIT.

Let's say you successfully check-raise the turn. What do you think the odds are he will call your check-raise? Let alone your river bet afterwards? I think slim.

So you really don't gain much (if anything) by check-raising, but you potentially miss bets.

Further, like sthief said, being able to 3-bet the turn would be really nice /images/graemlins/smile.gif


Adam

[Nate tha' Great]

The other thing is that he'll sometimes fold to the check-raise. I can see a hand like 66 just deciding to call down here on a board with no card &gt; J. If you decide to check it to him, and he decides to venture a bet, and you raise ... you've flagged that you're representing a huge hand and he may decide to bail when faced with the prospect of having to pay two more bets to see a showdown. If you just bet these hands, you tend to make yourself less readable and he's generally going to pay off on the installment plan.

So the problem with the check-raise is threefold:

1) Your opponent may decide to check behind, costing you a bet.
2) Your opponent may just call a check-raise when he was planning to raise himself, allowing you to 3-bet.
3) Your opponent may fold to the check raise when he would have called a bet on both the turn and the river.

I've almost completely dropped the turn-checkraise-when-you-have-the-lead from my playbook and I think it's done a lot of good for my results. The river check-raise, OTOH, has more merit because:

1) An aggressive player will tend to give up the lead on the river more often than he does on the turn, so it looks more natural.

2) It may be the only way to pick up a bet from a missed draw, whereas if you check the turn a draw will often check behind.

3) It's easier for your opponent to commit himself to calling one bet (paying off the river-check raise) than calling two (the turn c/r + the river follow-thru).

[chesspain]

Button had Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, and MHIG.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

as i always tell stief, betting is underrated.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
betting is underrated.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this motto.