AA? what do i do here?!

[willie]

standard no limit table, no real reads on these guys so i'm not sure where i totally murdered this hand...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 ($91.5)
Hero ($51.7)
CO ($48.25)
Button ($199.1)
SB ($110.7)
BB ($141.85)
UTG ($53.8)
UTG+1 ($58.95)
MP1 ($32.55)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $1, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $4</font>, CO calls $4, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls $3.

Flop: ($13.50) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets $3</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $10</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $44.25 (All-In)</font>, UTG+1 calls $41.25, Hero??????


what do i do here?

[tbach24]

Call. It's unfortunate that you have to but I think that there are enough times that one will just have TP and the other will have crap (D draw or top pair-mid kicker or even mid-pair) to make up for the times that you lose to KJ or JJ.

Also, this is nitpicky but I think you can get away with a larger raise preflop against these terridle players.

[willie]

few responses and i'll let out what the other hands were.....

[ninjaunderwear]

If you're behind here (which seems likely with an re-raise all-in and an all-in call), you're going to have a hell of a time catching up.

[willie]

lets walk through my thought process here

preflop, i'm huge, i have position, probably could have taken it to 5 or so, but 4 is my standard big hand raise


flop, the 3 bet is clearly weak, or possibly deceptively weak.

i make it ten

first push- i'm pretty confident i have this guy beat, he was tilting from an earlier loss and i figured he'd be overplaying something

second all in call....so this guy bets 3 dollars, i take it to ten, a guy goes all in and he cold calls about 40 dollars more...

the second call really set warning bells off in my head, to make a weak bet and then call an all in facing a reraise/all in is usually indicative of a really really big hand. let's review what happened, he called the preflop raise looking at 3 way action, then put in a weak bet and called a gigantic push with me still to act.

his play looked somewhat like KJ, and also a set of deuces, i couldn't rule out QT dd for the open ended straight flush draw either...

so i did the old weak tight thing and folded- there was just too much heat.

initial pusher shows ak for overplayed tp tk

retard callin 40 more shows a2dd for nut flush draw

my hand would have held....


it's a relatively weak fold but i also feel that it's pretty disciplined although wrong in this circumstance



is my line of thought awful or is it okay?

[DrPublo]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Button ($101.45)
Hero ($62.67)
BB ($72.11)
<font color="#C00000">UTG ($53.1)</font>
UTG+1 ($63.2)
UTG+2 ($208.36)
<font color="#C00000">MP1 ($42.7)</font>
MP2 ($26.85)
MP3 ($40.36)
CO ($70.15)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.5. CO posts a blind of $1.5.
UTG calls $1, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $1, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises to $5.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $5, MP1 calls $5, CO folds.

Flop: ($20.50) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $17</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $34</font>, MP1 calls $36.70 (All-In), Hero folds, UTG calls $2.70.

Turn: ($110.90) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: ($110.90) K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Results below:
UTG has 5s 5c (one pair, fives).
MP1 has Th 9c (one pair, tens).

Final Pot: $110.90

Thinking roughly the same as yours....I think folding AA in these spots is standard once an all-in has already been called, especially as you move up in stakes. I wouldn't sweat this hand and move on.

The Doc

[tbach24]

Happy Birthday!

[cardcounter0]

I would have said flush draw and KJ (with a hint of possible set?).

So the idiot only had TPTK instead of two pair, either way, fold, and get them on the next hand.

[DrPublo]

Thank you, thank you....don't mean to hijack the thread though.

The Doc

[DrPublo]

A few more thoughts on AA and folding the winner....

Folding the winner sucks, plain and simple. It's bad in limit but worse in NL because you get that sinking feeling in your stomach of a stack you could have absorbed.

I think in general it's a bad habit to have the mentality that as long as the flop isnt too menacing (KKQ or all one suit, etc), you intend to get all in on the flop with AA. The more raggedy the flop (T67, in my example) I think the LESS likely you should be to call big all-ins because its rare that a one pair hand will fight back so hard when that pair is not an A or K. Morover, once an all-in bet has been called, one pair (even AA or KK) doesn't look so good any more. So when you see yourself folding AA in these spots and it turns out you would have won, don't take that as the rule and go around calling off your stack all the time.

The thing I think we all need to remember is that we make the most money with AA by getting all in (or significant chunks of our stack all in) before the flop against hands we dominate. AK, KK, even QQ on occassion. This is where the real money is made with AA. Hands like this are just stepping stones along the way to the hands where you double through an aggressive KK or AK. So don't sweat the small stuff and move on.

Good fold, I say.

The Doc

[TheWorstPlayer]

100%. There was some decent discussion of this issue in AgentBishop's recent thread. AA makes a lot of money getting a lot in preflop and set over set. Other than that, if you only have one pair, you want to play a small pot. The reason for this (in case anyone is unclear) is that no one else is going to play a large pot with one pair, so if your opponent is willing to play a large pot, they most likely have your one pair beat.

[willie]

thanks a lot.

i feel like a lot less of an idiot since people seem to be
agreeing that i'm either marginally ahead or completely ruined

thanks for lookin it over.