standard play with ak?

[Jules22]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP1 calls, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP1 calls, BB folds, Hero calls.

River: (15.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.25 BB

im more interested in my turn and river play. am i chip spewing, or is this pot too big to get away from? my read on utg+1 is he could have worse than ak here

[Alexthegreat]

It looks like he has an overpair, or at least a pair.....I doubt he's getting insane with AQ, AJ or anything you beat....I think you should let this go on the turn....

[mr pink]

i'd check/fold the turn

[detruncate]

I've gotten out of the habit of routinely capping AKo pf, especially OOP. The turn call closing the action doesn't seem terrible, but I'd probably fold. I'd definitely fold the river.

[Jules22]

villain had ATo and mhing

[adamstewart]

Fold that river.

I'm not sure about betting into the flop, either.


Adam

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold that river.

[/ QUOTE ]

At 16:1? I think it's a clear call. I might not even cry over it.

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold that river.

[/ QUOTE ]

At 16:1? I think it's a clear call. I might not even cry over it.

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I respect your opinion and advice very much, so I'm giving this a great deal of thought.

16:1, yes, but at best aren't we hoping for a chop (8:1)?? (I mean the way this hand has been played by UTG+1 - especially preflop??)

I only question because I want to learn.

Adam

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold that river.

[/ QUOTE ]

At 16:1? I think it's a clear call. I might not even cry over it.

[/ QUOTE ]


I respect your opinion and advice very much, so I'm giving this a great deal of thought.

16:1, yes, but at best aren't we hoping for a chop (8:1)?? (I mean the way this hand has been played by UTG+1 - especially preflop??)

I only question because I want to learn.

Adam

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There's no player read given here so partly it's just the hope that 1/16 times you're up against a total maniac. You hopefully won't wind up in this situation too often, but if the pot is huge, and you have the nut no pair, and you don't know the player but he seems aggressive....

Ipso facto, someone who is capable of 3-betting a UTG raise with ATo in UTG+1 is capable of playing AKo or less this way.

[deadmunny]

I would Check/fold the turn and feel pretty certain that I am beaten.

Regards D

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
I would Check/fold the turn and feel pretty certain that I am beaten.

Regards D

[/ QUOTE ]


Weak.


Where's SLOTBOOM when you need him?


Adam

[deadmunny]

Dear Adam,

I always appreciate your replies to my posts and have learnt alot......... So educate me, here is my line of thinking here:

UTG has capped PF, raised my flop bet, I check the turn, he bets and I fold.

Why is this weak? What hand do you put him on where I beat him, given the PF action?... Ok,so he may have AK which we split or AQ, AJ....... but given the PF action is it not more likely he has a medium to big overpair? and I am just spewing? Notwithstanding the results..where this maniac capped with A10 and got lucky.... What am I missing?


Regards D

[adamstewart]

Okay, here's why I say you can't fold the turn:

I'm not saying we should continue because I think our hand is the best. I'm saying we're getting 14.25:1 money for our call.

With two overcards, we have as many as 6 outs, but I'd probably discount them to about 4 (maybe 3.5) to account for the times we make our hand, but it's still not best.

Therefore, it's +EV to call this turn. And if you fold, you're probably leaving money at the table.


Adam

[deadmunny]

Ok, I think I got it Pot Odds/Ev+/- is my weakness etc, and I hear what you are saying, it is just this particular instance from my take on it, to keep calling Unimproved and then he turns over a big pair e.g QQ and console myself afterwards that "well at least I wasnt weak" seems wrong /images/graemlins/frown.gif,

Thanks for the reply,

Regards D

[chief444]

I like it. I think the turn call is pretty good considering you hold the A /images/graemlins/club.gif. This means you likely have at least 3 outs if not more and the possibility that you hold the best hand. It does seem unlikely that your opponent would bet the turn with Ace high but I still call this river every time.

edit...I didn't realize the 2nd club came on the turn. The Ace being a club doesn't really matter much.

[adamstewart]

I'll give you this, though... I think it's a closer decision than I made it out to be.

After all, if we discount our six overcards down to 3 "outs", we're just barely over neutral EV.


Adam

[mtdoak]

Preflop its ALL dependent on my read of UTG. If he's a PF raiser less than 3% and he 3 bets me, its a call the flop, muck unimproved on the turn. Lets say its a standard small stakes player, which your fine capping with.

Flop looks good. You capped, bet/call.

The turn, well, its time to say bye bye. You have two overs against 3 players. I smell some reverse domination. A-10, A-7, K-10 are all posibilities for the two callers. If UTG+1 has AA or KK, your drawing very thin.

My line with AK is ALWAYS dependent on the player. Heads up you can call down. But against a large field in a middle of the road pot, its usually muck city for me.