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View Full Version : Lay down AA on a paired flop???

OilMan
02-13-2005, 03:26 PM
This was my 3rd or 4th hand at the table. No reads. Is this an easy laydown? Any thoughts on the flop raise? What would you do in this position?

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero...???
Hojglad
02-13-2005, 03:30 PM
AA is never an easy laydown. It looks like you are getting 17:1 on the flop. You are a 22.5:1 dog. I guess I wouldn't hate calling the flop and praying for an A on the turn (and folding the turn unimproved). Note that this is only because of your already heavy investment in the pot. Do not do this with little tiny pairs when a crap flop full of overcards falls.
Entity
02-13-2005, 03:31 PM
I would cap and call down if led into on the turn.

Villain will be betting a 6, a pocket pair, or a flush draw here quite frequently. I would not fold unless I knew him to be the most passive player in the world.

Rob
Hojglad
02-13-2005, 03:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I would cap and call down if led into on the turn.

Villain will be betting a 6, a pocket pair, or a flush draw here quite frequently. I would not fold unless I knew him to be the most passive player in the world.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]
This may be due to my relative inexperience, but does a 6 or a smaller pocket pair really 3 bet this flop?
Entity
02-13-2005, 03:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would cap and call down if led into on the turn.

Villain will be betting a 6, a pocket pair, or a flush draw here quite frequently. I would not fold unless I knew him to be the most passive player in the world.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]
This may be due to my relative inexperience, but does a 6 or a smaller pocket pair really 3 bet this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

The answer is: occasionally. They are in the possible range of hands for SB to be betting, and you have an overlay provided by the CO if you're wrong, so it isn't a ghastly error.

Either way, I think folding the flop is wrong.

Rob
sy_or_bust
02-13-2005, 04:00 PM
A hand like 77-QQ will play this way most of the time HU, and more aggressive players will 3-bet with less (i.e. Ah6d, flush draws, etc.)

I cap and call down against an SB lead on the turn.
Hojglad
02-13-2005, 04:11 PM
In general, is it a good idea to assume (with no reads) that the people we are playing against are aggressive and capable of making a play like the one mentioned in the previous post (3 betting 77-QQ or A6)? The only reason I ask is because I sort of doubt this is a normal play for your standard UB 0.25/0.5 player.
Francis
02-13-2005, 04:14 PM
Post deleted by Francis
Hojglad
02-13-2005, 04:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
How many outs do you have to improve? I'd say 1, the A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, as the A/images/graemlins/heart.gif puts the flush on the board.

[/ QUOTE ]
You've got it all wrong, we WANT the A/images/graemlins/heart.gif to fall. That gives us a boat. We like sailing. Especially against someone with a made flush.
DeathDonkey
02-13-2005, 04:19 PM
Any thought to just calling on the flop?

-DeathDonkey
Entity
02-13-2005, 04:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Any thought to just calling on the flop?

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

I think as a whole there will be more value to raising, as flush draws will both bet and call.

The decision between capping and calling the 3-bet is close, and is probably pretty opponent/game specific. I'm not folding, though.

Rob
Hojglad
02-13-2005, 04:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Any thought to just calling on the flop?

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]
I think I like this line. It might be viewed as "weak", but when we are way behind, we lose the minimum. I just can't put it past an average microlimiter to cold call with Kx.
DeathDonkey
02-13-2005, 04:23 PM
Is the bigger factor the two hearts or the CO behind us?

-DeathDonkey
Entity
02-13-2005, 04:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Is the bigger factor the two hearts or the CO behind us?

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

The biggest factor is the relatively large range of hands that are bettable by an average player on this flop. Having a CO in who apparently likes to call multiple bets also makes raising better.

Rob
Francis
02-13-2005, 04:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You've got it all wrong, we WANT the A to fall. That gives us a boat. We like sailing. Especially against someone with a made flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doh! you're right, ignore my post (or better yet, I'll go edit it)..

sorry, need more coffee or something.

Francis
OilMan
02-13-2005, 04:53 PM
I folded to the SB's 3-bet /images/graemlins/shocked.gif. Once my re-raise did not isolate the SB and he 3-bet, I could not see how my hand was good.

However, If I did call his 3-bet (or capped the flop for that matter), what do I do when/if he leads out on the turn? Do I call down to the river? I really only have 2 outs to beat 3 kings.

BTW, at showdown, SB shows AK for 3 of a kind and CO shows J8 of hearts for a flush that came on the turn.