Sometimes I like to mess with their heads a little

[Carmine]

How much do you guys hate this play. You know they expect me to bet out so why give them the satifaction.

No real reads. 1st orbit.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. CO posts a blind of $3.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (7.33 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP3 checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (3.66 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 folds, CO calls.

River: (8.66 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 8.66 BB

[adamstewart]

HORRIBLE!


PREFLOP: fine

FLOP: Bet that! You've got an MP3 limper and a CO poster. Neither probably like their hands as much as you've appeared to. A bet will often win this hand right there.

TURN: WTF are you raising for? You checked the flop because you assumed you were behind (at least I hope that's why you checked the flop). Now, you're raising someone who leads into you????


U-G-L-Y.

Adam

[Carmine]

Adam, thanks for your response. I was hoping to get a few more (assuming they would all be along the same lines as yours) before I explained myself here.

Of course this is far from my default play, but I have been experimenting with these weird little plays lately and they have been working out well for me. I posted this hand to see if there was any merit to it or I have been just getting lucky with them. Here is my reasoning.

In my experience it is rare that one single bet will take this pot down (maybe 20% of the time). The players will look you up with any piece of the flop, pair, Ace high or because they were dealt two cards. If I bet out on the flop and am called (80% of the time) I will have to bet out again on the turn hoping they were just taking one off the top and missed. So that will cost me 1 1/2BB. If they call the turn also, then what do I do on the river? Check/fold, Check/call, Bet/fold.

I may also get bluff/semi-bluff raised on the flop by those who want to test me(50% of the time). Then I'm forced to call and fold the turn UI. This only costs me 1BB but I could easily be folding the best hand and give the player the green light to pull this move all night.

Okay so here we are back at the flop. They check to me knowing very well I am going to bet out especially with the K out and only two players. But I don't. Now they are confused. If they are thinking players even at a very minuscule level they have to consider a trap play. 90% of the time they will check to me on the turn again. I then bet because my "trap play didn't work" and they fold putting me on TPTK or better when all I ever had was missed overs (in this case 99). Okay but in this hand MP3 bets out on the turn. Not what I wanted. So either he doesn't think at even a minuscule level, he is bluffing, or he has a piece of the board which means he would be ahead more than likely because it is more likely he limped with a K or T rather than a 2 or 6. I could now fold having it cost me nothing or as I did raise. Which he is forced to believe or seriously consider I trapped him with a monster. The proper play for him (I think) would be to fold anything short of AK, KK or KQ which he would have raised PF. I think it is very possible that this play can get a better hand to fold. I also gain the bets they put in on the turn which they would not have if I bet out on the flop and they folded.
Yes I realize I risk 1/2BB more with this line, but do the pros outweigh the cons. Is it as horrible as it seems at first glance?

[mr pink]

[ QUOTE ]
it is rare that one single bet will take this pot down (maybe 20% of the time)

[/ QUOTE ]

your flop bet is getting 7.3 to 1. if it takes it down once in 5 times then 1 time you win 7.3 bets and 4 times you lose 1. what's wrong with that?

[Carmine]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it is rare that one single bet will take this pot down (maybe 20% of the time)

[/ QUOTE ]

your flop bet is getting 7.3 to 1. if it takes it down once in 5 times then 1 time you win 7.3 bets and 4 times you lose 1. what's wrong with that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Point taken. Again that would be my ususal play here. But with your reasoning you must check/fold the turn as not to spend additional bets...Correct? You essentially "give up" after the flop. Which could very well be the most +EV play. So nobody thinks I can increase my win percentage to more than 20% or win more bets that 20% of the time with this line.

[mr pink]

you dont necessarily have to give up on the turn... you're only up against 2 other players. a lot of people will call the flop bet with as little as an ace or a gutshot and give up on the turn once they miss. you gotta know who you're up against. when do they fold if they miss? do they normally peel one off on the flop? or do they drop it on the turn? betting again on the turn against one caller and then taking a free showdown UI is a perfectly fine way to play this hand.