Overthinking a sledgehammer?

[slavic]

A few debatable plays here.

Muck 20/40 game(9 handed) I like the game, the game is nice. It has all the good qualitites one looks for in a game, even with four non-action players in the game.

Utg open raises he has a fairly wide range of hands here. Most medium to large aces, most pairs, big suited connectors, it's really a medally of goodness. He's quite aggressive post flop. Folds around to the button who cold calls. This means he has a limping hand or better he's fairly passive post flop. I look down in the SB and find AKo I start to 3 bet but the BB mucks before I can get chips out and I just call.

Flop: 5 5 2r

I bet, UTG calls, button calls

Turn A puts two spades on the board.

I bet, UTG calls, button folds

At this point I'm fairly certain UTG has an ace.

River: T offsuit

I check.

[Alexthegreat]

and raise?

I like it if he's going to bet, but I'm thinking he probably isn't going to bet often enough for this to be correct....


Probably a little too fancy, just bet out and take the pot

[CardSharpCook]

did you chk, hoping to chk/rz? That is ok. I think he will bet out his ace. I also think that if he missed, he'll bluff. I also think he'll think his PP is good, so he'll bet. I really like this move IF you are planning to raise.

However, if you were planning to lead out on the flop, 3-bet PF. As it turned out, UTG probably thinks you either have the third five or are getting real aggro with your 66.

CSC

CSC

[CardSharpCook]

hey, slavic, your picture is taken a mile away from the house I grew up at. You live around there?

CSC

[bobbyi]

Against people with hand ranges like you describe, I really think you should three-bet this for value preflop, regardless of whether BB is already mucking.

[TStoneMBD]

i also agree with the 3bet, but more importantly i think you should have checkraised the turn here. the river check is ok, but much more clear cut if you think he is capable of valuebetting a pocket pair.

[Kaz The Original]

This looks nice, real suave like. It's a pretty good flop for you, all things considered. Why do you think he just called the turn when he hit his ace? Was he looking to raise the river? Thinking you have a five and looking to get to showdown cheap?

[slavic]

[ QUOTE ]
i also agree with the 3bet, but more importantly i think you should have checkraised the turn here. the river check is ok, but much more clear cut if you think he is capable of valuebetting a pocket pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi TStoneMBD -

I thought there was a decent chance that I would be raised on the turn with as little as a flush draw. That's player specific in this case and also depends on how aware he is of me.

[slavic]

Nope I live in Seattle.

I went to school at UT.

[slavic]

[ QUOTE ]
Against people with hand ranges like you describe, I really think you should three-bet this for value preflop, regardless of whether BB is already mucking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Bobby-

What about keeping the pot smaller to pick it up when I miss, and denying the maniac the one asset he has in the ability to easily read hands?

[eugeneel321]

"I like it if he's going to bet, but I'm thinking he probably isn't going to bet often enough for this to be correct...."

He's almost always going to bet here with an ace and medium kicker. Good play,

[DcifrThs]

i like getting the money in with a 3bet here...let him cap something like AQs...thats a lot of equity tehre....

the passive guy on the button i think is another reason.

so i reraise preflop and bet out the flop if he raises i call and bet the turn with an ace. then bet the river.

i guess i play it a bit more straight forward, but you did get in that river checkraise, which had to be fun /images/graemlins/wink.gif

-Barron

PS- im assuming you got the c'r in given your description of him being aggressive postflop despite him not showing any aggression postflo pyet..

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Against people with hand ranges like you describe, I really think you should three-bet this for value preflop, regardless of whether BB is already mucking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Bobby-

What about keeping the pot smaller to pick it up when I miss, and denying the maniac the one asset he has in the ability to easily read hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

keeping the pot small to pick it up against a loose button and the described UTG is just not where the money is in this hand imo...

you have a perfect situation here to get a lot of money in there...

so i ask you, how many big bets did you give up in this hand by not 3betting preflop, betting the flop and betting the two consecutive streets?? its at least 1.5-3bbs...let him read my hand...all i care about is its very likely better than his /images/graemlins/wink.gif (and he can't move me off it)

-Barron

[USS Gut Shot]

Calling with AK once in a while to vary your play is fine especially if you play against these guys a lot.

Going for the ch raise on the river is a good play. It wins a bet from a busted flush draw if he decides to bluff, and most likely he will bet AQ or AJ.

[bobbyi]

A lot of people in our games don't consider the pot size enough when acting and they respect three bets from the blinds a lot, so I'm not sure that three-betting preflop makes it that much harder to pick up the pot. Maybe somewhat harder, but the difference is not large enough to make up for the amount of money you are leaving on the table by just calling. I think your two objections to three-betting are contradictory. By saying that you make it easier for the maniac to read your hand, you are saying that he will know you have something strong if you reraise and if you just call you conceal the strength of your hand, but this is exactly why you aren't really hurting your chance of picking it up by reraising.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
Turn A puts two spades on the board.

I bet, UTG calls, button folds

At this point I'm fairly certain UTG has an ace.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why are you suddenly so sure that he has an ace when his range of hands was wide before? Are you saying that he will only call the turn with an ace? Meaning that he would fold a pocket pair? If so, I would check-raise right here and pick up two bets rather than one if he has an ace, as well as probably picking up a bet from a pocket pair that would have folded if I bet out. He'll probably bet a flush draw too, believing that you are scared of the ace. Plus, you trap the button for two bets (in this case, he might have even called if you had checked and UTG had bet rather than folding when it went bet-call since he would have thought he only had one opponent to beat and that you couldn't have an ace, so whatever he has might be good since the bettor would be UTG whose bets can't be trusted; of course, if he folded to your bet, he probably also would have folded for the raise, but you still would have gotten one more BB from him).