Flopped overcards with nut straight draw, good play here? [Archive]

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Dave G.

02-13-2005, 04:00 AM

Who likes raising the flop here? Is it worth it to try and get BB to fold?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero raises, 4 folds, BB 3-bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero ?

Sykes

02-13-2005, 04:03 AM

Any reads on MP1? You could be behind JJ/QQ/KK/AA here and have the T be your only out. I would say call, and fold the turn unimproved.

Dave G.

02-13-2005, 04:07 AM

No reads as yet, I hadn't been at the table for long. I would have thought he would have been more aggressive preflop if he had high pocket pairs.

Dead

02-13-2005, 04:09 AM

Why do you automatically assume that MP1 has a high pocket. Mp1 is not the one who 3bet preflop. BB is. I like a call here on the flop for Hero.

dkernler

02-13-2005, 04:10 AM

I'm wondering what BB 3-bet with PF and didn't like about this flop. One possibility is a check/3-bet coming after you. Do we know anything about the BB? I'm tempted to call here and see what happens.

Sykes

02-13-2005, 04:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm wondering what BB 3-bet with PF and didn't like about this flop. One possibility is a check/3-bet coming after you. Do we know anything about the BB? I'm tempted to call here and see what happens.

[/ QUOTE ]

You read my mind. I wouldn't be surprised if BB check-raised here on this flop.

Dave G.

02-13-2005, 04:17 AM

I didn't really know BB at the time but after 50 hands he looks like a maniAc or a big fish: 98% VPIP, 17% preflop raise... post flop aggression is only 0.6 though.

dkernler

02-13-2005, 04:17 AM

You see, we can agree sometimes. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I'd be very surprised if MP1 had a high pocket pair. TP or 2nd pr are both likely. Possibly even a set, but who knows at this point. BB is what I'm more afraid of.

dkernler

02-13-2005, 04:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't really know BB at the time but after 50 hands he looks like a manic or a big fish: 98% VPIP, 17% preflop raise... post flop aggression is only 0.6 though.

[/ QUOTE ]
Given this read, a raise is definitely worth considering. But I've been scolded for my over-aggressiveness lately, so I won't make any recommendations.

If you raise and can fold to a 3-bet or on the turn UI, It seems worthwhile. BTW, I'm only really liking a T on the turn.

Dave G.

02-13-2005, 04:27 AM

In the end BB ended up cold calling and MP1 3-bet, which was pretty confusing given the preflop action. I probably should have let it go after the 3 bet, but on the turn I have odds to keep drawing to only the straight, right?

Here's the whole hand:

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero raises, 4 folds, BB 3-bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, BB calls, MP1 3-bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (12.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has As 2s (high card, ace).
MP1 has Js Qs (two pair, queens and jacks).
Outcome: MP1 wins 14.25 BB.

hate

02-13-2005, 04:30 AM

What? That 4 is a diamond, isn't it? You just folded a nut flush draw?

Sykes

02-13-2005, 04:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
In the end BB ended up cold calling and MP1 3-bet, which was pretty confusing given the preflop action. I probably should have let it go after the 3 bet, but on the turn I have odds to keep drawing to only the straight, right?

Here's the whole hand:

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero raises, 4 folds, BB 3-bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, BB calls, MP1 3-bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (12.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has As 2s (high card, ace).
MP1 has Js Qs (two pair, queens and jacks).
Outcome: MP1 wins 14.25 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Talk about irony. To be totally honest, that's what I had MP1 on reading the hand history a second time. I originally thought MP1 raised pre-flop.

Question is: Is mp1's play - or + EV?

Dead

02-13-2005, 04:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What? That 4 is a diamond, isn't it? You just folded a nut flush draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

The 4d came on the river.

Dead

02-13-2005, 04:35 AM

Behold the power of QJs

hate

02-13-2005, 04:39 AM

NO DROP THAT

Dead

02-13-2005, 04:41 AM

Ok ok ok. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Dave G.

02-13-2005, 04:51 AM

I'd have been happy if that 4 came on the turn. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks for the input everyone.