Simple bubble hand

[davehwm]

I'm really trying to grasp this concept of 'pushing any two'. Obviously not truly any two, but should I be pushing at least these middle/high off suit hands?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1400)
SB (t1090)
BB (t1200)
UTG (t4310)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">UTG folds</font>, Hero?

[The Yugoslavian]

I very likely would -- but we've already established that you pwzn3d me earlier today on the bubble, /images/graemlins/wink.gif. And that I'm the worst 8tabling 11 SNG player in the history.

So, yeah.....there ya have it!

Yugoslav

[Scuba Chuck]

Why are you trying to grasp the concept of learning how to push any two? This seems like trying to learn how to jump with a snowboard, before you know how to snowboard. It's a little suicidal.

[davehwm]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you trying to grasp the concept of learning how to push any two? This seems like trying to learn how to jump with a snowboard, before you know how to snowboard. It's a little suicidal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I understand, can you explain? What should I be focusing on?

Maybe I am trying to steal too often from the button when 4-handed. Would pushing here be too aggressive?

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you trying to grasp the concept of learning how to push any two? This seems like trying to learn how to jump with a snowboard, before you know how to snowboard. It's a little suicidal.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, he doesn't have any two. He has Q9 which runs decent hot/cold HU if called.

Second, I don't snowboard and have no idea what you're talking about.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Yugoslav

[curtains]

I fold the Q9o here. They call too much and after the blinds you still have plenty to steal with. Also someone may bust or get crippled before that.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]

I fold the Q9o here.


[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough.

[ QUOTE ]

They call too much


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not so sure about this. You have both covered and as long as they're not big maniacs there is *plenty* of FE here.

[ QUOTE ]

and after the blinds you still have plenty to steal with.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well yes. But...
#1, this looks like a good spot to steal.
#2, if you want to be 'stealing' with a better hand, that probably qualifies as value raising

[ QUOTE ]

Also someone may bust or get crippled before that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes...this may very well be enough to offset the FE you have here justifying a push. Hmmm, poker is tricky like this.

I still push and ICM/Easty-style push assumptions back me up that it's +$EV /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Although you're a better SNG player and can afford more to pass up this opportunity for a better one probably.

Yugoslav

[Scuba Chuck]

FWIW, this looks like a great opportunity to let one of the other guys make a mistake. That's really +$EV.

BTW, I've never snowboarded before. Nor jumped. I turn 31 this week, that looks suicidal.

[curtains]

Of course there is tons of folding equity but you really just don't need to do it right now. Let's see if someone busts in the next 4 hands. We will still have plenty of chips after the blinds pass, and our FE isn't hurt very much, meanwhile a lot of good things can happen. If my hand was stronger I'd move allin here.
Also these idiots love to call with KJo, A6 all the time.

[Scuba Chuck]

Yugo, I think this is why you're getting 1.9% ROI!

I think you'd benefit from reviewing some HH's of your bubble play. And when I say bubble play, I mean 4 handed play. Being patient here, and letting others make mistakes is a decent play, IMO. I'm always amazed how anxious others get in this situation. Are you feeling anxious?

[Bigwig]

I'd fold.

[The Yugoslavian]

I don't think it's possible to lose enough future $EV here by pushing to explain a nonexistent ROI.

I will PM you with my more detailed shiznit.

Yugoslav

[hovemag]

Wow, it seems I have my thinking wrong here I would have thought this was a great blind stealing opportunity.

Big stack to your right, if he starts raising your steal opportunities will suffer. He has folded here dont miss the opportunity.
You dont want to be pushing UTG into the big stack next hand
If either call and lose they are out, meaning they are only calling with a very narrow range of hands esp. SB
If you do get called at least you probably have two live cards
You push they fold you have 1700 chips giving a bit of daylight in second place, and more time for the two shorter stacks to make a mistake to get desperate.

You guys have been playing a lot longer than me though, so I would appreciate knowing where my thinking is flawed.

[Scuba Chuck]

I agree that this is a good blind stealing opportunity. Big stack, to your right has folded. You cover both middle stacks to your right. They have ample FE to fold their garbage hands...

I think we could debate here that next round is the better fold. I am just trying to stir some thought. When do I provide opportunity for others to make mistakes? IMO, on the bubble, calling standards tend to fall. I'll see calls with AJ for example, or 99.

[adanthar]

In an SNG where people fold, easy push.

In one where they don't (&lt;$20), easy fold.

[11t]

I think this is a read dependent decision. Q9os is a better than average hand and is a marginal favorite 3 handed. If you get called however you are most certainly in a coinflip situation or you are crushed. If play has tightened up, as it typically does on the bubble, and you do not have a maniac image this is an okay push IMO. Your goal here is to not be called and if you do get called you have an OK hand and could suck out.

Basically what I am saying is this.

IF the blinds are tight this is an okay push, folding wouldn't be that bad but you are going to have to make a move soon no matter what. The other players are just willing to eek into the money by waiting until one guy gets blinded out or doubles up nnd then they have to take their turn.

IF the play is loose or one of the players is bad and is prone to make mistakes, ie pushing against the big stack's BB with marginal holdings, then this is a terrible push.

Thats my opinion anyways.

[zaphod]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a read dependent decision. Q9os is a better than average hand and is a marginal favorite 3 handed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you here. Usually i would push here, but if i have been very aggresive lately(as i use to be 4 handed) i might fold this one.