How is Villian's call.... (low content whine)

[Sponger15SB]

KQ on the button.

Folded to me, I raise to $2, SB mini raises to $3.50

Flop is J T 8

SB bets $8, I push, SB thinks for a while and calls.

Turn and river are small crap.

SB wins with..... ACE EIGHT

KILLLLLLLLLL MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[the alex]

How is Villian's call?

How is your flop fush? In hindsight, good.

How is his call? He put you on no pair and he hit a pair. His call's not that bad. In my eyes, he shouldn't see a flop. In your eyes, you missed the flop, you have King high, and your opponent led into you. Fold.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
In your eyes, you missed the flop, you have King high, and your opponent led into you. Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, you have king high.

But you also have 2 overcards and an OESD.

That = Big draw = Do not fold.

Play is fine, Villains call is horrible. Situationally good, as I like saying.

[Kaz The Original]

Hero's push was pretty horrible, when you consider all the hands villian will call with.

Keep bluffing these fish, and they'll keep calling you.

[the alex]

Bobbo,

OESD, yes.

$8? No.

Calling $8 with only $15 left in your stack after a call? Hell no.

Pushing $22 in the pot after a pot sized bet from the raiser while the pot is $15? When you include the times that someone calls with trips and has the re-draw along with your straight draw. It's not worth it.

[BobboFitos]

Al,

[ QUOTE ]
Calling $8 with only $15 left in your stack after a call? Hell no.


[/ QUOTE ]

Who said anything about calling? Push it in, it's gambling time.

EDIT: Gambling with an edge, of course. If you dont press a small edge such as this you're giving up equity, not taking it.

[the alex]

I see where you're coming from, Bobbo, but JT8 is a bad flop for a KQ, even though it looks good. Your overcards could be dead- and the re-draws for Villian could easily kill the times that you hit.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
I see where you're coming from, Bobbo, but JT8 is a bad flop for a KQ, even though it looks good. Your overcards could be dead- and the re-draws for Villian could easily kill the times that you hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

that is an excellent point

[BobboFitos]

Oh, villain probably thought you had AK, btw. So he had you reverse dominated. He plays good poker, huh?

~~~

Alex - you made a good point that this flop isn't as good as it may look at first glance, but even with a small amount of folding equity, your hand still does well vs an array of top pairs, or pair plus straight draws (like T9 etc) that vs the hand range with the money in pot / folding equity I believe it should be pushed.

But folding is definately not wrong.

And... Because it is possible villain has some outs tied up pushing > calling because you dont know what you want to hit, and if you do hit, you give villain a chance ot get away. And 8 is almost PCing you anyways. IMO it looks like raising > folding > calling but I could see how folding and raising could be flip flopped.

[TheWorstPlayer]

For what it's worth, I almost never count overs as outs. People simply play way too much K8, KJ, KT, etc. I think you will cost yourself more money by adding in your overs than by subtracting them, honestly. And people call down with crap anyways, so if you have odds to draw to your straight and you hit your overs, then start betting. If it looks like you aren't good, drop it then. (Obviously with these uber-short stacks you can't drop it later. So with these stacks, I fold unless I have odds to draw to the straight.)

[greg nice]

[ QUOTE ]
For what it's worth, I almost never count overs as outs. People simply play way too much K8, KJ, KT, etc. I think you will cost yourself more money by adding in your overs than by subtracting them, honestly.

[/ QUOTE ]

bingo

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
How is his call? He put you on no pair

[/ QUOTE ]

No he did not put me on anything.

That was the problem.