fish alert - a new way to rant

[Exsubmariner]

Hey guys,
I am really really really pissed off right now. I have concluded that posting here will probably be the best way to vent my anger.
This morning, I was playing a 6 max game at party. I was doing fine. Then a maniac sits down. OK, I've dealt with them before. The maniac starts to get lucky, my $100 turns into $60, then $50. I start being careful. This guy raises at everything. So I call him with AK suited. Have a little raising war after the flop comes 10 5 of my suit and a Q. Next card is a 7 of my suit. Raising war again. Last card is a 5. Raising war again. He had raised with a 75 suited to make the full house. OK I can take that. I am down to about 20 bucks. Next, I get KK. He bets and calls every raise to the river when I find he has called with 2nd pair and hit a two outer to make three of a kind. I have $7 left and I am so very absolutely disgusted with this jerk that I leave. It is very rare that I get put on tilt. I doubt I will feel emotionally stable again until I tell this community his name. It is armaduc and I met him on party 1/2. Add him to your buddy list. Happy valentines and have fun next time you meet him.

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

nm

[BlueBear]

Ouch, there is no justice in poker.

[solucky]

Party decide its fish-weekend look to the post last 2-3 days many are on bad streaks including myself:)

[Exsubmariner]

For me or him?

[razor]

[ QUOTE ]
Ouch, there is no justice in poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

sure there is, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, maybe not with this particular maniac... but I've never met a death spiral downswing or a run of bad luck against a maniac that wasn't followed by a turn for the better... or maybe I'm just lucky...

[Exsubmariner]

I may not ever meet him again. But there are now hundreds of 2+2r's out there who have his handle and will be looking for him. He will be punished. That makes me feel good. I think I'm going to do this every time I meet a maniac who wins money from me. I must be evil.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
I may not ever meet him again. But there are now hundreds of 2+2r's out there who have his handle and will be looking for him. He will be punished. That makes me feel good. I think I'm going to do this every time I meet a maniac who wins money from me. I must be evil.

[/ QUOTE ]

Grow up.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt I will feel emotionally stable again until I tell this community his name.

[/ QUOTE ]

I sense it will take a lot more than this.

[Exsubmariner]

I said I was upset. Have some empathy, brother.

[Vern]

2+2 is not a gang that gets together to target fish, maniacs or anyone else. Don't post the username next time. I checked the Terms and Faq, there is nothing official about it, but that still doesn't make it right. We have all been sucked out on. It is a sign we are in a good game, long term, regardless of what happens on a couple of hands.

Consider this a request that in the future you please do not post the names of maniac's that suck out on you, regardless of whether you are evil.

Vern

Now, if you wanted to discuss whether the maniac had a better pattern mapper......

[Jurollo]

This is all over a measly $100?!?! Stop playing poker now.
~Justin

[Exsubmariner]

Of course it is not a $100 I had a month ago. I think I am beginning to calm down.

[Exsubmariner]

You are right, Vern.
This is all a result of feeling I am trapped in a kind of hell at party 1/2. This is the absolute most abismal level at any sight I have ever been too. My win rate here is the lowest it has been since I began to win. The 10 games are populated by rocks, eagles, money bags, and mice. Hard to make anything. The 6 games are lots of gamblers and tasmanian devils. Very swingy. 50K hands and I barely have made a grand. I could play at a higher limit, but I want to build my roll from nothing. So I can say I did, I guess. I'm really doing it for the challenge. It is frustrating, though, when some imbecile takes money from me. My time. My profit. All the nights I stayed up grinding out my roll for so someone could get lucky. Of course you know and I know the end result. I will win enough on this level and move up in time. That's all it will take. I suppose it was rather juvenile of me to post his handle here. You are right, we should all find our own fish.
Thanks for listening and being the voice of reason. I have calmed down considerably since your post and am no longer feeling evil.
Oh by the way, I believe there will be lots of 2+2r's who add the name on their buddy list. Regardless of whether it is right or not.

[skoal2k4]

Why wouldn't you want to know the names of players that play like [censored]? You play poker to make money right?

[Vern]

[ QUOTE ]
Why wouldn't you want to know the names of players that play like [censored]? You play poker to make money right?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is not a question of whether I want to know the name, it is a question of whether 2+2er's work as a group to plan on targeting bad players. I do not think that is what 2+2 or even more specifically, the Zoo, is all about.

Vern

[steamboatin]

Vern is right. It won't hurt us to show a little class. We don't have to get carried away with it, but a little class is a good thing.

[skoal2k4]

Class... ok, I'll buy that. Just as long as we don't get into talking about some sort of ethics in poker, which is where I thought vern might be getting at.

[Vern]

Not an ethics concern but a forum concern. I think if this forum became known as a place where we scouted out fish and posted their names, it would get even worse than before they nixed all the affiliate spam.

Vern

[PITTM]

i think if you see playing poker as "a kind of hell" you should probably stop playing...

rj

[PITTM]

[ QUOTE ]
Ouch, there is no justice in poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

have you ever hit a 2 outer after you lost to a 2 outer earlier? doesnt that feel a bit like justice when it happens? of course, ive just been reading Platos Republic for the past week so the mention of justice makes me want to vomit.

rj

[EliteNinja]

pfft!
$93 loss at 1/2

That's nothing.
I lost $200 at 1/2 in one hour. Then another $100 in the next hour. (4-tabling)

Of course, I dug my way out of that in due time. But you gotta have patience.

You just gotta have a roll large enough to weather the swings and play your best all the time. That's all you gotta do.

These things happen all the time.
You gotta learn to chill, bro.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why wouldn't you want to know the names of players that play like [censored]? You play poker to make money right?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is not a question of whether I want to know the name, it is a question of whether 2+2er's work as a group to plan on targeting bad players. I do not think that is what 2+2 or even more specifically, the Zoo, is all about.

Vern

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree only in so much as it would open the floodgates for other disgruntled players to start posting the names of fish who have given them bad beats. Plus many of these "fish" wouldn't be fish at all -- they'd just be players that losing players have a vendetta against.

[Myles Zorro]

If this guy is a maniac and raising with 7-5 suit and calling with a two outer all the way to the river the best thing to do is get out of the game and play with more passive fish. I learned the hard way too

[Jim T]

[ QUOTE ]
If this guy is a maniac and raising with 7-5 suit and calling with a two outer all the way to the river the best thing to do is get out of the game and play with more passive fish. I learned the hard way too

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, no. I love having players like that at my table.

And a maniac doesn't call all the way to the river with a 2 outer, he raises all the way to the river with his two outer.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
So I call him with AK suited. Have a little raising war after the flop comes 10 5 of my suit and a Q. Next card is a 7 of my suit. Raising war again. Last card is a 5. Raising war again. He had raised with a 75 suited to make the full house.

[/ QUOTE ]


Let me get this straight.

You just called pre-flop with AK?

and then you got in raising-wars on each street (including the river) with AK unimproved (albeit with a flush-draw)?


I would rather have your handle than his.

[Exsubmariner]

I'd have to look at the hand history. It is probable I raised, usually my habit. Possibly I called because it was capped. That kind of a game.
Raising without a completed hand, huh?
Let's count the outs.
Any suit. That's 9.
Any A or K for top pair top kicker. That's 6 more.
Any J not my suit that's 3 more.
That brings me to 18 outs. Given what was already in the pot, I'd say I was getting pretty good odds on my raise.
I know you post alot here Bob, but you ever read any books by a guy named Sklansky?
You don't think it's a good idea to raise with 75 suit do you? I suppose I lost because he was the better player. I also suppose you have never raised with 18 outs.
Don't troll me anymore, OK?
What's your handle, BTW? You sound a little passive.

[Exsubmariner]

I love poker. I am really getting tired of this Party 1/2 Rocks and Maniac BS. If it is the same at 3/6 and 10/20, then I may have a problem....

[Buccaneer]

Not to stir the pot on this one but how do you guys handle someone like is being described in this thread? Did he take money from everyone at the table or just you? Not having much experience I think that I would tighten up, only let this guy have a set amount of my money if I could not turn it around and let the other players have a shot at this guy. What other techniques should you try against a player like this agressive and lucky player. Even tightening up doesn't always work. Submariner played AKs which in all books is playable. What I have read suggest protecting your hand but this guy is not taking the hint? Would a good technique be to play suited connectors till you draw a nut and punish the guy? If a guy is ignoring the best hands you can play what else can you do?

I ran into a guy like this on party and he is on my buddy list too. If I ever see him again I will change tables. I figure that that is the only way that I can do well against him at least for now.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
What's your handle, BTW? You sound a little passive

[/ QUOTE ]

He is not the one who called preflop with AK..and not only did you call, but called a maniac.

You are mad about someone beating you out of $93. And then you think "justice" is having him fleeced?? Wouldn't it be better off you keeping this "fish" to yourself??

But, hey maybe Bob will give you his handle so you can play him in the 15-30 game.

craig

[craig r]

This type of player is very important to learn how to beat. You will make a lot of money off of a guy like this. And why would letting this guy have a "set amount of money" benefit you. If you are in a +ev situation, keep playing.

craig

[Axioms]

These are my favorite players also. But the profitability comes with a price and all the books in the world tell you that. I personally understand that I will take a beating from a maniac once in a while and when I do it will HURT.

The swings you'll see are tremendous but your long-term against this guy who will cap with anything will send a lot of dollars your way. The problem is that you don't know when you have the best of it. The only thing you can do to maximize your +EV is play better hands than him.

Here's what happened to me on a Paradise .50/1 the other night: Things are winding down from my 3 tabling session so I'm slowly closing them down as I make my final orbits.

One of my table showed a pretty good run in particular so I took a look at it and there was this one LAG maniac left there who seemed to have built up from the $25 min buy to about $60. I watched this guy show down a lot of hands that were total garbage. In fact, I don't recall him showing down a single good hand.

So I think that I will stick around a couple more orbits and see if I catch a good starting hand. There are 9 people left. I get an AJo. Everyone is playing passive and I know I'll isolate with a raise. So I raise and isolate him. I then flop an A with two rags rainbowed. I bet, he raises, and it's capped. (This is exactly the way it goes with this guy no matter what since I started really paying attention to the table.) The board doesn't improve at all so I show him down with my TP and J kicker and I'm sure I've got him beat when he shows me AQo. No problem. I think, "Well he's gotta get a good hand occasionally. I just got unlucky this time." So I tightened up some more and waited.

This time I get KK and the same thing happens. I isolate with a raise and his RR PF. It's capped all the way to the showdown with no A on the board and he shows me some ragged nonsense for 2 pair. I work really hard on shrugging this one off because I knew I had the best of it.

The last time I actually got pocket rockets not too many hands later. SAME ROUTINE: It's shown down with a low/rainbow/ragged/no-pair board and capped all the way. I turn over my AA absolutely sure that I have the best hand. He turns over an 88 and I watch completely dumbfounded as the chips slide his way. I look at the board and there's an 8 on the river.

This is when I decide I'm too tired to continue for the night. I can take these beats and swings in the long run. They don't really bother me and I prefer to play them agressive to maximize my earnings. But I know exactly how you feel. You're not alone. Just take a break and come back later. Aside from the fact that you could tilt when this happens, your table image goes out the window and everyone puts you up there with the maniac and will take shots at you. Then you'll get more suck-outs and that will really hurt.

[Axioms]

Also realize that having at least 2 pair against a maniac is good insurance too. (as these examples show) I know I'll get some criticism for my plays but I welcome it if they explain.

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
I love poker. I am really getting tired of this Party 1/2 Rocks and Maniac BS. If it is the same at 3/6 and 10/20, then I may have a problem....


[/ QUOTE ]

1/2 is a fuc[/b]king walk in the park compared to 10/20 or 15/30. Goodbye.

[emonrad87]

Dude, you're a fool, moron, and an idiot.

Do you see why?


<font color="white">Here's a hint - for one, we don't care about your bad beat stories. Two, why the hell would you tell a bunch of sharks this guy's sn? wouldn't you rather keep him to yourself?
Three - your play sucks. </font>

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
This type of player is very important to learn how to beat. You will make a lot of money off of a guy like this. And why would letting this guy have a "set amount of money" benefit you. If you are in a +ev situation, keep playing.

craig

[/ QUOTE ]

My thinking is that if you are better than him and he is beating you then he must be getting better cards or you are not playing him well. By setting a limit you are giving the universe a chance to come back in to balance but having a plan to get out if it doesn't. That is just my thoughts but as always I am here to learn.

[BruinEric]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd have to look at the hand history. It is probable I raised, usually my habit. Possibly I called because it was capped. That kind of a game.
Raising without a completed hand, huh?
Let's count the outs.
Any suit. That's 9.
Any A or K for top pair top kicker. That's 6 more.
Any J not my suit that's 3 more.
That brings me to 18 outs. Given what was already in the pot, I'd say I was getting pretty good odds on my raise.
I know you post alot here Bob, but you ever read any books by a guy named Sklansky?
You don't think it's a good idea to raise with 75 suit do you? I suppose I lost because he was the better player. I also suppose you have never raised with 18 outs.
Don't troll me anymore, OK?
What's your handle, BTW? You sound a little passive.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his point is that AKs is a raising hand pre-flop, especially if you have a chance to isolate the maniac by getting it heads-up where you likely have the best hand.

I think his second point is that in your implied heads-up situation, you aren't getting the odds to have a raising war, even with a 4-flush at the flop. You want 2 or 3 callers to your bets for value. If you're heads-up here, you might want to just call the raise at some point.

At least that's my understanding of Sklansky land, pot odds, and betting flush draws for value based on field size.

All the best to you.

[leehrat]

i'll gladly beat the piss out of armaduc for you lol. thanks for the buddy list addition

[steamboatin]

When a Maniac is hitting they are impossible to beat. But they can't keep hitting forever. When I encounter a Maniac, I tighten up and only play hands I am willing to play for a raise.

Then you ram and jam, if He catches , He catches, if not, you win big. Just play your best game, only tighter and more aggressive. The swings are greater against a Maniac, but big swings allow for big wins.

[zsmith69]

SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU ALL NEED YOUR HUSBANDS TO DRIVE TO THE STORE AND GET YOU SOME TAMPONS

[B00T]

[ QUOTE ]
SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU ALL NEED YOUR HUSBANDS TO DRIVE TO THE STORE AND GET YOU SOME TAMPONS

[/ QUOTE ]

Finally someone talks some sense into this thread.


P.S. Bob, its about time someone put you in your place. Stop trolling him. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[MaxPower]

See this month's Ray Zee article in the 2+2 internet magazine.

[Exsubmariner]

[ QUOTE ]
If you cannot stand up to the plate and battle back, you will not be playing a winning game in all likelihood. I see it happen often where the bully gets to run over the game with no one knocking him down.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is EXACTLY what was happening!

[Exsubmariner]

Bruin,
You do bring up a good point. I understand that what you are suggesting here is the by the book ABC way of playing. However, there is a little bit more to poker than just playing ABC. Sklansky said in "Theory of Poker" that in some instances, against some players, that it is +EV to raise on the last bet instead of fold because they will lay it down. I am convinced that Microbob would never dream of attempting anything like this but I digress.
Anyway, I looked at the hand history. It happened like this. I am the button, maniac is just on my right. player A calls, player B raises, maniac reraises. I call 3 bets, obviously hoping player A and B will also call. This was not a conventional play, but made for value. Blinds fold, Player A folds and Player B calls. Flop happens. B bets, maniac Raises and I reraise. This time the raise is intended to isolate him. Player B folds and maniac caps. I call. The turn makes my nut flush. The rest is punishment for my somehow offending the poker Gods.
Anyway, I was interested in any thoughts you might have on how things could have been done differently. However, I know that it was a doomed endeavour from the beginning. I was all excited that this would be the hand to take the wind out of the maniac and get him to slow down a notch or two. Replaying the hand, it became easy to see what I was thinking at each stage. Of course he just kept on being impossible to beat and I left.
It will probably be more constructive next time to post the hand history in the microlimit forum, as I know strategy is not typically the topic in this one.
I know you are not a Microbob apologist and I am truely interested in hearing what you might have to say. As for Micro, I really don't see how someone who posts 7300 + times in a year and four months has any time to play poker. He's too busy trolling 2+2! /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[flafishy]

Agreed. If this kind of stuff tilts you out and throws your game into a tailspin, run far, far away from Party Poker. Plenty of other sites out there where your bankroll is more stable but you can still build it. I forsook Party and Empire, etc., long ago because of this kind of stuff.