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View Full Version : A4s hand for discussion

ClaytonN
02-11-2005, 10:34 PM
UTG+1 is a 23 VPIP with a 0% PFR after 50 hands. Main villain is an unknown.

I'll post the hand, and then my thoughts in a response.

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PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, CO (poster) checks, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, UTG+1 folds, CO calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

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shadow29
02-11-2005, 10:37 PM
You're going to have to make the field face two cold eventually, why not the flop? The won't put you on trips, either, I don't think.
ClaytonN
02-11-2005, 10:41 PM
I overcalled. I knew flush draws weren't going to get proper odds to call the flop (so if they continued I profited), but if I called I felt like I could give overcards the right odds to call, too. More profit.

Turn play then becomes standard to shut out the flush draws.

Is this legitimate thinking?
davelin
02-11-2005, 10:43 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I knew flush draws weren't going to get proper odds to call the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure they do.
shadow29
02-11-2005, 10:45 PM
It's legit.

Flush draws almost always have the odds to draw, btw. Don't think in terms of "shutting them out", but rather in terms of a race: if he hits his flush, he wins, if he doesn't, you win.

I just prefer getting more aggressive early--putting in the bets when I know I'm ahead.
ClaytonN
02-11-2005, 10:46 PM
Ruh roh. Did I do bad math?
shadow29
02-11-2005, 10:55 PM
If you have a flush draw on the flop, (generally) you can't go too wrong if you see the river every time.
ClaytonN
02-11-2005, 10:57 PM
I just can't agree with this line of thinking. You're making too big a blanket statement. Gotta factor the odds somewhere!
Brain
02-11-2005, 11:21 PM
Flopped flush draws are 35% to make the flush by the river. Odds come out to 1.86:1 by the river, IIRC, and 4.11:1 after the turn card.

If my odds are wrong, please shoot me, it couldn't hurt (I have played horribly in my last 3 sessions, see tonight's hand post).
Greg J
02-11-2005, 11:29 PM
You gotta raise this flop.
Catt
02-11-2005, 11:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I just can't agree with this line of thinking. You're making too big a blanket statement. Gotta factor the odds somewhere!

[/ QUOTE ]

It is the very, very rare circumstance that a flush draw (not BDFD) doesn't have the odds to call a flop bet or even a flop raise at these limits.