Flopped nut straight

[Nick Royale]

Would you play it like me? If not, how and why?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $1.5. CO posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

River: (16.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds.

Final Pot: 18.75 BB

[FreakDaddy]

Well played. Would have played it the same.

[Shillx]

Raise preflop. Given that you limped preflop this looks okay. 3-bet the flop with a bigger pot and the same action.

Brad

[FreakDaddy]

No way. This hand will get a lot of action with hero sitting on the button if he limps. That's precisely what happened.

Perfect play Nick.

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
No way. This hand will get a lot of action with hero sitting on the button if he limps. That's precisely what happened.

Perfect play Nick.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should rethink your strategy if you just call preflop. This is an auto raise under any conditions but with 2 posters I'm licking my chops with this hand.

Brad

[VBM]

suited &amp; connected face cards on the button is a great spot for a raise. trust me, i've just spent the last couple of days reviewing my own pre-flop play and this hand has a lot of equity in this game.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're right. I can't believe I'm always missing these kinds of raises.

[FreakDaddy]

It's +.024 pre-flop from the button. With a limp in a large multi-way, you're going to trap a lot more unsuspecting callers if you have betters in front of you. If you raise pre-flop and do hit the flop, you'tr going to have a lot more drops after the flop - thus less customers. My limps from the button with medium to medium-high suited connectors has been quite profitable.

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
It's +.024 pre-flop from the button. With a limp in a large multi-way, you're going to trap a lot more unsuspecting callers if you have betters in front of you. If you raise pre-flop and do hit the flop, you'tr going to have a lot more drops after the flop - thus less customers. My limps from the button with medium to medium-high suited connectors has been quite profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sound like the guy who was sitting to my left last night. He started talking to me because he knew I was a TAG and he was trying to impress me by reciting SuperSystem to the table. Then he started showing me hands he was mucking on the flop. He had QQ in the SB and just called preflop after like 4 limpers and then bet/folded on a K66 and said "I don't raise QQ preflop because at 3/6 you can't get any one out except maybe the BB". Good times. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[VBM]

[ QUOTE ]
It's +.024 pre-flop from the button.

[/ QUOTE ]
how in the world are you calculating this to this precision?

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
It's +.024 pre-flop from the button. With a limp in a large multi-way, you're going to trap a lot more unsuspecting callers if you have betters in front of you. If you raise pre-flop and do hit the flop, you'tr going to have a lot more drops after the flop - thus less customers. My limps from the button with medium to medium-high suited connectors has been quite profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since Hero has an equity edge shouldn't he push it by raising? Since the pot will be bigger on the flop, isn't less likely that people will fold for one more bet?

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's +.024 pre-flop from the button. With a limp in a large multi-way, you're going to trap a lot more unsuspecting callers if you have betters in front of you. If you raise pre-flop and do hit the flop, you'tr going to have a lot more drops after the flop - thus less customers. My limps from the button with medium to medium-high suited connectors has been quite profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sound like the guy who was sitting to my left last night. He started talking to me because he knew I was a TAG and he was trying to impress me by reciting SuperSystem to the table. Then he started showing me hands he was mucking on the flop. He had QQ in the SB and just called preflop after like 4 limpers and then bet/folded on a K66 and said "I don't raise QQ preflop because at 3/6 you can't get any one out except maybe the BB". Good times. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, we can compare apples and organes all day, but none of us are going to learn anything. I'd never call QQ from SB. I UNDERSTAND the value of knocking out opponents with cards that DON'T play well in multi-way, but hero unwittingly made a great call on this hand that loves multi-way. Med-high suited connectors from the button are great cards to call and not raise at these stake levels. I can't argue with my stats.

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's +.024 pre-flop from the button. With a limp in a large multi-way, you're going to trap a lot more unsuspecting callers if you have betters in front of you. If you raise pre-flop and do hit the flop, you'tr going to have a lot more drops after the flop - thus less customers. My limps from the button with medium to medium-high suited connectors has been quite profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sound like the guy who was sitting to my left last night. He started talking to me because he knew I was a TAG and he was trying to impress me by reciting SuperSystem to the table. Then he started showing me hands he was mucking on the flop. He had QQ in the SB and just called preflop after like 4 limpers and then bet/folded on a K66 and said "I don't raise QQ preflop because at 3/6 you can't get any one out except maybe the BB". Good times. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, we can compare apples and organes all day, but none of us are going to learn anything. I'd never call QQ from SB. I UNDERSTAND the value of knocking out opponents with cards that DON'T play well in multi-way, but hero unwittingly made a great call on this hand that loves multi-way. Med-high suited connectors from the button are great cards to call and not raise at these stake levels. I can't argue with my stats.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well if your stats say so...

I'll take QQ with 6-7 going to the flop anyday, you can keep your 67s.

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's +.024 pre-flop from the button. With a limp in a large multi-way, you're going to trap a lot more unsuspecting callers if you have betters in front of you. If you raise pre-flop and do hit the flop, you'tr going to have a lot more drops after the flop - thus less customers. My limps from the button with medium to medium-high suited connectors has been quite profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sound like the guy who was sitting to my left last night. He started talking to me because he knew I was a TAG and he was trying to impress me by reciting SuperSystem to the table. Then he started showing me hands he was mucking on the flop. He had QQ in the SB and just called preflop after like 4 limpers and then bet/folded on a K66 and said "I don't raise QQ preflop because at 3/6 you can't get any one out except maybe the BB". Good times. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, we can compare apples and organes all day, but none of us are going to learn anything. I'd never call QQ from SB. I UNDERSTAND the value of knocking out opponents with cards that DON'T play well in multi-way, but hero unwittingly made a great call on this hand that loves multi-way. Med-high suited connectors from the button are great cards to call and not raise at these stake levels. I can't argue with my stats.

[/ QUOTE ]

From a % of pots taken, QQ has a 38% equity against 5 opponents. T9s has 23% against 5. Go figure...

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]

Since Hero has an equity edge shouldn't he push it by raising? Since the pot will be bigger on the flop, isn't less likely that people will fold for one more bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

What does hero gain by raising in THIS particular situation? There are already almost 8SB in the pot on the flop. What hands aren't going to call that would with 14 or more SB? If hero catches the flop with this hand, people are going to have a hard time placing him on a hand and will bet into him MORE then making up for lost equity pre-flop. Just my humble view of poker. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]


From a % of pots taken, QQ has a 38% equity against 5 opponents. T9s has 23% against 5. Go figure...

[/ QUOTE ]

From what position? Don't make me break out my poker books now. I'll run some numbers for you since you guys like stats right? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Since Hero has an equity edge shouldn't he push it by raising? Since the pot will be bigger on the flop, isn't less likely that people will fold for one more bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

What does hero gain by raising in THIS particular situation? There are already almost 8SB in the pot on the flop. What hands aren't going to call that would with 14 or more SB? If hero catches the flop with this hand, people are going to have a hard time placing him on a hand and will bet into him MORE then making up for lost equity pre-flop. Just my humble view of poker. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? You just said "If you raise pre-flop and do hit the flop, you'tr going to have a lot more drops after the flop - thus less customers". So are there more drops (which I read to mean folds) or are more people betting into Hero?

If I hit a favorable flop and people bet into me, this is bad?

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


From a % of pots taken, QQ has a 38% equity against 5 opponents. T9s has 23% against 5. Go figure...

[/ QUOTE ]

From what position? Don't make me break out my poker books now. I'll run some numbers for you since you guys like stats right? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

All positions put together. Sure run some numbers.

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Since Hero has an equity edge shouldn't he push it by raising? Since the pot will be bigger on the flop, isn't less likely that people will fold for one more bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

What does hero gain by raising in THIS particular situation? There are already almost 8SB in the pot on the flop. What hands aren't going to call that would with 14 or more SB? If hero catches the flop with this hand, people are going to have a hard time placing him on a hand and will bet into him MORE then making up for lost equity pre-flop. Just my humble view of poker. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? You just said "If you raise pre-flop and do hit the flop, you'tr going to have a lot more drops after the flop - thus less customers". So are there more drops (which I read to mean folds) or are more people betting into Hero?

If I hit a favorable flop and people bet into me, this is bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I didn't make that very clear. If hero catches the flop WITH-OUT a pre-flop raise people are going to have a hard time placing him on a hand and will bet into him MORE, making up for lost equity pre-flop. &lt;-- I guess that was the key indicating that my sentence was in conjunction with NOT raising pre-flop. It wasn't that clear though. And if this is the case, that is, no pre-flop raise and flop hits, people betting into him is great, that's the point about making up pre-flop equity.

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


From a % of pots taken, QQ has a 38% equity against 5 opponents. T9s has 23% against 5. Go figure...

[/ QUOTE ]

From what position? Don't make me break out my poker books now. I'll run some numbers for you since you guys like stats right? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

All positions put together. Sure run some numbers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, but this particualr situation is from the button. I'll post some later because I have to take off now. This has been a good discussion so far though. At least I've enjoyed it.