QQ standard lay down.

[rmarotti]

I'm pretty sure this is sort of a "meh." play, but i wondered if anyone does it any differently. FWIW, I was planning on c/raising CO if a safe card came on the turn. Unfortunately, just about the absolute worst card possible came off. If the turn card had been a little prettier do you think a c/raise is a good plan?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, BB calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, BB calls, Hero folds, MP2 folds.

River: (10.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, BB folds.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

[Redeye]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure this is sort of a "meh." play, but i wondered if anyone does it any differently. FWIW, I was planning on c/raising CO if a safe card came on the turn. Unfortunately, just about the absolute worst card possible came off. If the turn card had been a little prettier do you think a c/raise is a good plan?


[/ QUOTE ]

Any read on CO? I think I'd normally call this down since there are possibilities he could have an overpair 88-JJ or something or something like A7 thinking you missed with big overs. I don't know if thats right though with this board.

[rmarotti]

BB's overcall had me worried and swayed me away from a calldown. Too weak-tight?

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I was planning on c/raising CO if a safe card came on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see your reasoning, but I'd like to throw this out for discussion:

What "safe card" could you possibly be hoping for in this hand?

Any /images/graemlins/heart.gif is scarey for you. Any card from 3-9 is scarey for you. An Ace or a King are overcards to you.

Further, any Ace or face card will probably kill your action *against worse hands* since you raised preflop. Therefore, if CO has a worse hand, he'll probably check it through, and you won't be able to check-raise. If, however, CO has something like a set or two-pair, he'll 3-bet you.

Also note that if CO was just on a draw that didn't complete, he'll simply take the free card when you check the turn!


Given the above, I feel that you should have 3-bet the flop. If capped, you know to be cautious thereafter. If not, I think i lead the turn regardless of what falls and see how they react (i.e. if I get raised on the turn, I fold).

What do others think of this?


Adam

[Redeye]

[ QUOTE ]
BB's overcall had me worried and swayed me away from a calldown. Too weak-tight?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, I suppose it depends on what BB is like. I think a lot of times BB has a big heart and is trying to suck out. (probably results oriented) He didn't raise here though so he probably doesn't have a flush. Maybe he has a straight and is scared of it. I guess its a tough spot.

I don't mind waiting for the turn on a board like this, but the thing is that you don't know if CO is raising a flush draw here and will take a freebie on the turn. Also, since you didn't 3-bet the flop you have somewhat misrepresented your hand and therefor I think its hard to fold to a turn bet. I think this hand is a lot easier if you would've 3-bet the flop, bet the turn and folded to a raise if a card like this hit. Actually, I think for all these reasons I like 3-betting the flop better here than the turn check. If you would've been in-position and someone would've bet from EP, I think waiting until the turn would've been a better line in that situation.

[rmarotti]

This is well thought out on all counts and I like
the suggested line. I think 3-betting the flop makes this whole thing play easier. In fact, I have no idea why I took this line. It was 3AM, but I was sober, so I really have no excuse. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Fat Nicky]

[ QUOTE ]
I feel that you should have 3-bet the flop. If capped, you know to be cautious thereafter. If not, I think i lead the turn regardless of what falls and see how they react (i.e. if I get raised on the turn, I fold

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is the best line.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
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I feel that you should have 3-bet the flop. If capped, you know to be cautious thereafter. If not, I think i lead the turn regardless of what falls and see how they react (i.e. if I get raised on the turn, I fold


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I think this is the best line.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is a pretty standard line. I don't even want to bother thinking about the math but I'm fairly certain that calling the flop and hoping to check/raise the turn every time in this situation would have a much lower expectation. Especially with this board.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
Any read on CO? I think I'd normally call this down since there are possibilities he could have an overpair 88-JJ

[/ QUOTE ]
88 makes the straight.