Shortstacked strategy - Can I beat awful players with 25xBB?

[Unarmed]

10-20 500 min/no max underground game against a bunch of Asian guys with infinite bankrolls. They are all LAP/LAG (I've seen 100 calls PF with 24o) and buy in for around 2k.

I can afford to buy in for 500 and lose it, but I wouldn't be real happy about it. The question is, should I bother sitting, or just wait until I have enough of a bankroll to buy in for 2k or so? If I can actually beat this:

Game texture:
<20% of pots unraised PF.
If raised 3-4 to a flop.
If unraised 6-7 to a flop.
PF raising standards are extremely loose (i.e. 44 open raise from EP last night)

I've been mucking small mid pairs in EP and MP and limping LP if there's enough action. Other than that, playing pretty typical tight aggressive poker. Oh, and if there's enough limpers I'll shove AJo/mid pairs out of the blinds and expect to get at least one caller with a worse hand (AJ vs UTG KT last week after I had 8 limpers to my BB)

Anything else I should be thinking about? Forget about stealing the blinds, any normal raise will get called by one of them.

My flop play needs a good deal of work, but there's really not a ton of flop decision making here with only 25xBB. Seems to me it should be possible to build a pre-flop system that has me smoking this without too much trouble.

Thanks

EDIT: If anyone has any relevant threads sitting in their favorites list I'd love to see them...

[edtost]

sitting with $500 would be supremely profitable in such a game; you would almost never have a flop decision though, so you may decide to kill yourself out of boredom.

but it would be a really really bad idea to do so if losing a buyin hurts. you probably want a 10k-ish roll to do this sort of strategy, 5k at the very minimum. to take a shot, have like 2k that you really really don't mind dropping.

[XChamp]

Say you has a few thousand you don't mind losing. What happens if you take your shot, sits down with $500, and hit some cards to to take you up to $3000+? What do you do?

This exact thing happened to me at Greektown. Suddenly I realized I was sitting with a little over $3,000 in front of me as two other guys at the table were checkraising $1,000 on rag flops. I decided it wasn't good to risk what was now 1/2 of my bankroll against some maniacs and got up and left. I felt like a huge pussy but I think it was the right decision.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
What happens if you take your shot, sits down with $500, and hit some cards to to take you up to $3000+? What do you do?


[/ QUOTE ]

I know most of them and they know I'm not bankrolled by my parents. If I left after a couple hours up 3k they wouldn't even notice, let alone care. They're playing to get bombed, stare at all the hot chicks that hang around, and lose their play money to each other.

[turnipmonster]

uhh, is this game in nyc?

[Kaz The Original]

Detroit.

(Edit I ment greek town, not this game).

Btw, you should push or fold preflop, I might limp late late position with a pocket pair.

[Unarmed]

Haha, no... next time you're in Toronto holla and I'll hook you up for 20% of your profits /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Kaz The Original]

Are you serious?

I live in London. Not england.

[Unarmed]

Yup. PM me for details.

[LuvDemNutz]

[ QUOTE ]
Detroit.

(Edit I ment greek town, not this game).

Btw, you should push or fold preflop, I might limp late late position with a pocket pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree - limp LP with pocket pair and push when you hit a set.

Push or fold PF other than that.

If you can't afford to lose a couple buy-ins then dont play because the first two times you push with aces and they get cracked, you'll walk home crying /images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

What is the "standard" raise at this game?

[turnipmonster]

deal /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[zaxx19]

I can afford to buy in for 500 and lose it, but I wouldn't be real happy about it

Then why play>?? If the game is THAT soft play but dont only walk in with 1 buyin that seems antithetical to everything I know about proper NLH play.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
What is the "standard" raise at this game?

[/ QUOTE ]

80-100, doesn't tend to vary with # of limpers.

[LuvDemNutz]

I'm hoping to get more comments on appropriate short-stacked strategy. I played in my first live casino NL game last night (5-5 $100 min, $200 max) and I had a hard time navigating the short stacks.

It seems to me that the short-stacks take a lot of the skill out of the game. How do you bluff/semi-bluff when after a decent sized PF raise such a move would be 1/2-2/3 of your remaining stack.

With 40BB stacks (or less after the blinds/ paying the time) I often found myself raising PF and pushing on the flop.

When I got down to $120 I either bought back up to $200 and/or I started pushing all-in PF with hands like AK (I did this a couple of times after somebody brought it in for $20 and got a caller - so there was $50 already in the pot and I figure with AK I want to see all 5 so I might was well push at that point).

It wasn't until the end of the session that I finally hit a big pot and bounced up to $500 where I actually had room to maneuver.

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
hit some cards to to take you up to $3000+? What do you do?

[/ QUOTE ]

In a case like this you are free-rolling and should really learn to play some deep stack poker.

Lawrence

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
I felt like a huge pussy but I think it was the right decision.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very good decision. Nothing wrong if you feel your deep stack play isn't up to par.

Lawrence

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
first live casino NL game last night (5-5 $100 min, $200 max) and I had a hard time navigating the short stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is not short, that is dwarfed stack. 5-5 NL with max 200 buyin????

[kemystery]

that is nothing, Lawerence. Here is the NL game spread locally

2-5 blinds $100 max, $50 or 100 rebuy @ or below $50