PP nl100 6max JJ

[edtost]

Its been a while since I've played the PP nl games, and this hand just seemed awkward the whole way through. opponent was loose/bad but not awful after some sort of insufficient sample size.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB ($97.98)
UTG ($96.8)
Hero ($147.95)
Button ($151.44)
SB ($107.97)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. SB posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $7</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls $5.

Flop: ($15) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $12</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $24</font>, Hero calls $12.

Turn: ($63) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $15</font>, Hero calls $15.

River: ($93) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $93

how'd i do? my biggest annoyance was not being able to fold to a push if i raised the turn, since we were both so short. now i remember why i stopped playing these 50x games.

[djoyce003]

I think you should have raised the turn. He is more likely to have a straight or flush draw than anything else...the size of the bet into such a large pot makes me think you are head here. The only other hand he *might* have called a raise with is 76 suited, which just got counterfeited on the river. I think you should have value bet the river.

[passion]

Anytime I get this sort of action of the flop I immediately think that my opponent has a drawing hand or that he is testing me (with perhaps pair) to see whether I want to contest the pot. Since you raised it is unlikely that he would think you had a draw with the board cards so his flop raise would not seem to indicate a set or (2 pair). Indeed most sets would just call. Overall, I like the call of the raise on the flop, although I think you could make an agrument for re-raising.

The ten is probably not the ideal turn card but I wouldn't let that slow me down too much. With the draws on the board I would probably raise his turn bet, making it at least 30 to go. If I was re-raised all in I would call. I am probably a tad on the aggresive side. Losing a buy-in because I was aggresive with this hand would not bother me at all.

I would tend to be less aggresive with this hand if stack sizes were doubled.

Passion

[soah]

I think I'd push on the turn. His turn bet stinks. Either he's milking you, or he doesn't like his hand much. If he's milking you then all the money is going in on the river anyway. But if he doesn't like his hand much then I'm not sure that you're any more likely to make more money off of him by waiting until the river to put the rest of your chips in. He might also just be playing like a dumbass with something like AK. He also may have flopped a pair plus the straight draw. Against any of those hands, you don't want there to still be a lot of money left on the river.

Obviously though this is heavily dependent on what you know of your opponent's betting patterns, and your image at the table, etc. There are certainly times when just calling the turn is correct.

[edtost]

[ QUOTE ]
With the draws on the board I would probably raise his turn bet, making it at least 30 to go. If I was re-raised all in I would call. I am probably a tad on the aggresive side. Losing a buy-in because I was aggresive with this hand would not bother me at all.

I would tend to be less aggresive with this hand if stack sizes were doubled.

[/ QUOTE ]

any turn raise i made would have put him allin, i hate severe underbetting online. if we both had, say, &gt;200 on the table, i could pot it and fold to a push, but do i really want to get allin with just one pair here?

maybe i'm just being weak-tight. (here is the point in the thread where everyone who's played live with me starts laughing.)

[passion]

[ QUOTE ]
any turn raise i made would have put him allin

[/ QUOTE ]

Or at least committe him to the pot were he to call. Making it 30 to go would leave him with twenty some bucks left, so what you are in effect saying is I like my hand a lot and I am committed to seeing it though.

[ QUOTE ]
i could pot it and fold to a push, but do i really want to get allin with just one pair here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would not mind getting all-in but I have an I bust you or you bust me approach to things.

Passion.

[edtost]

making it "$30 to go" (i assume you mean 45 total, 30 total would be even worse) would be awful, given the size of the pot. in fact, any raise other than a push would be terrible.

while i chose not to push, i think it probably would have been the best play. i guess i'm too used to playing deep enough that one pair isn't all that strong, whereas a backing one with a party buyin is routine. sigh. so much to learn, so much to remember.

[passion]

Yeah Ed I meant 45 total. It is effectively a push as it committes you and him to see the hand through. So you are effectively treatening all of his chips, but the more that I think about it I like the push better.

By the way the great thing about these shallow stack games in my opinion is that you don't have to second guess yourself. Play aggressive and if you lose a buy - big deal. Its so easy to double through.

Passion.

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
but do i really want to get allin with just one pair here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Once you get raised on the flop you're either folding or committing the rest of your stack.

[edtost]

let me rephrase: do i really want to get called allin here?

[Rockatansky]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but do i really want to get allin with just one pair here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Once you get raised on the flop you're either folding or committing the rest of your stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could not agree more. One of the temptations in NL is to just call, thinking that you're allowing yourself to put off a tough decision. This thinking is detrimental for two reasons: 1) as soah points out, often you only think you've put off the decision - by calling you've committed yourself to the hand; and 2) you shouldn't want to put off such a decision - either you're ahead and you need to raise or you're behind and you need to fold.

Note that I'm not saying that a smooth call when you're holding a monster is incorrect. What I'm saying applies to situations where you hold a hand that is ahead, but is vulnerable.

[edtost]

many times, a hand will become much better/worse on the turn, and delaying the decision to raise until a blank comes off is a good thing.