How To Play MIDDLE POSITION PRE-FLOP?

[imashyboi]

This questions has been buggin me, whats the best play in middle position when someone raises in front of you. I am referring to tight/loose 15/30 and 30/60 games on Party. Say if you have AQo-QTo or AQs-QTs. I could easily fold ATo-QTo but how about AQo, AJo, & KQo? How about suited hands, I would think its decent to cold-call with ATs-QTs but then again you have to make sure you'll have some callers behind you. How many players do you need in front of you to make the raise call worth it?

One more, what hands would you guys call or reraise with if there was a raise in middle position and you were in late position holding a mid hand like AJ-QJ?

Just wondering if I'm playing a little too loose since I might have a leak on my game. Thanks

[Bill C]

Not a terrible idea to regard this as a "raise or fold" situation. A lot of the hands you mention, especially the unsuited ones, can be easily dominated by the expected hand of an early raiser. You need a premium hand here: AA, KK, maybe QQ, AKs, AK, and in a loosish game maybe AQs, AJs.
Anything less can often lead to pain and sorrow.

SSH has a section on this that's quite good and really applies to most limits.

bill

[imashyboi]

Thanks for the comment. I read the book but the book is mainly about loose games. 15/30 and 30/60 tables consist of both loose and tight players. I'm just trying to get feedbacks on other players starting hands to adjust my plays since I might be leaking from calling a little too much hands.

[MattC]

so just play your opponent and who is left to act.

if your opponent is tight, AA KK QQ JJ AKs TT AKo and AQs.

if hes loose add in like 99 88 and AQo.

Mix in a few hands occasionally to mix it up for deception purposes.

[Bill C]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the comment. I read the book but the book is mainly about loose games. 15/30 and 30/60 tables consist of both loose and tight players. I'm just trying to get feedbacks on other players starting hands to adjust my plays since I might be leaking from calling a little too much hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Party 15 tends to be a little loose. So do the B&M games I am involved with. I can't say a lot about 30.
My ideas are based on my own experiences. I like to be fairly tight early and aggressive later with hands I want to play. Being dominated is no fun and can get expensive.

If there is an EP raiser, and there are several cold callers before it gets to me in LP I may loosen up just a little. Of course it helps to have some ideas about the raising standards of the EP bettor when you are making these decisions. If he's gonna have a super-premium hand and raise with it, you might find yourself behind from jump street.

Just my $.02 worth...
bill

[amulet]

if you are calling a lot of raises cold you are leaking money. if someone raises you think fold unless you have a top hand. AJo, AJs, ATs, KQ, AQ, QJs, QTs, 88, etc are all easy folds unless the raiser is a player who you know gets out of line. you are probably dominated and do not want to play. if you have a top hand, AA, KK, QQ, AKS you reraise online and live. online and depending on the live game you also 3 bet to get it heads up with JJ, TT, AK. although, hands like TT you need to bet pretty certain you will get it heads up and then you need to have the ability to get away from it depending on the flop and on the post flop betting.

as for QJo it is total trash and you don't play it unless it is folded to you in very late position, then you raise to steal the blinds.

the fact that you are asking this question tells me you may not be ready for the 30/60 or the 15/30 games. i would suggest you drop down, and study some.

again, a mistake many players make is calling raises cold, it is almost always a mistake to call raises cold.

[GreywolfNYC]

[ QUOTE ]
if you are calling a lot of raises cold you are leaking money. if someone raises you think fold unless you have a top hand. AJo, AJs, ATs, KQ, AQ, QJs, QTs, 88, etc are all easy folds unless the raiser is a player who you know gets out of line. you are probably dominated and do not want to play. if you have a top hand, AA, KK, QQ, AKS you reraise online and live. online and depending on the live game you also 3 bet to get it heads up with JJ, TT, AK. although, hands like TT you need to bet pretty certain you will get it heads up and then you need to have the ability to get away from it depending on the flop and on the post flop betting.

as for QJo it is total trash and you don't play it unless it is folded to you in very late position, then you raise to steal the blinds.

the fact that you are asking this question tells me you may not be ready for the 30/60 or the 15/30 games. i would suggest you drop down, and study some.

again, a mistake many players make is calling raises cold, it is almost always a mistake to call raises cold.

[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't change a thing here. This is very, very sound advice. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[NMcNasty]

In middle position against an early position raiser:

AQo - reraise
AJs - fold
KQs - fold
77 - reraise
66 - fold

Being suited doesn't mean much at 15/30 and 30/60 since the average pot is only between 2 and 4 players. AQo is definitely better than AJs.

In late position against a middle position raiser I'll reraise with 66, 55, and maybe even the baby pairs, but I'll still probably fold AJ.

There is no hand that I'll just call with, except maybe AA once in a blue moon.

[amulet]

this advice is wrong. let me expain why. a good player raises with AA,KK,QQ,JJ, TT, AK, AQ. skip the AJs and 99 for this example. that makes 30 ways he has a big pair and 32 ways he has AK or AQ. if you 3 bet with the small pairs as the last poster suggested in about 1/2 the hands you are a huge dog - more then 4 to 1, in the other half it is about 50/50. if you combine the 2, your a big dog. the person who 3 bets with the small pair always assumes the UTG has Ak or AQ, but he is unaware of the probabillty that it is about even money that he has a bigger pair. therefore, doing this on a regular basis will be getting your money in when you are a dog. fold those small pairs, they are for multiway pots.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
This questions has been buggin me, whats the best play in middle position when someone raises in front of you. I am referring to tight/loose 15/30 and 30/60 games on Party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unreal.

b

[NMcNasty]

Party 15/30 and 30/60 don't contain good poker players. Its true that you don't want to 3-bet a player who only plays the top seven hands (only 4% of the hands dealt to him) with small pairs. The average party poker player however will raise from early position with KQ, AJ, A9s, KJs, and absolute garbage sometimes. When you add those hands into the mix AQ and 77 become clearly profitable. In middle position players will raise with KJ, A6s, QTs, and maybe even worse hands. You won't have the luxury of dominating someone preflop with a small pair but you're usually ahead. Also, small pair vs overcards is not an equity coinflip. Small pairs are slightly ahead mathematically, you have to factor in the blinds, aggressive play will force overcards to fold early (a missed KQ has to fold on the turn and possibly flop), and you have decent implied odds from flopping sets or just playing better.

[surfdoc]

I think this is pretty accurate and is more of a HEFAP approach than a SSH approach. I think that AQ is the one hand with some wiggle room and can be profitable to 3 bet if you have some data on the raiser (which you for the most part should if you are playing these games often).

Without meaning to be overly snooty however, I have to agree with bernie when he says "unreal" and I think this thread real belongs here. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=begin)

[imashyboi]

Thanks for the replys. I'm believe I'm a fairly tight player but I do gamble with some of my hands. Say if early players folds to me and I'm in MP I'll raise with AK-QT, AA-TT, any suited connectors from T9s-98s also. Its probably wrong to raise with a non-suited hand on a loose table but if the table is pretty tight(0-3 seein the flop) raising with these hands isn't really that bad of a move. With a raise in front, I fold lots of hands(AJ-QT) and probably cold-call with only KQs(KJs maybe), QJs, AJs, and ATs. I'll make it 3 bets with anything higher than AQ and probably with TT. With mid pair from 99-77, I'm only reraising if I'm heads up against a mid or late raiser. I still feel that its best to just cold-call these when you have 2 players in already including the original raiser.

Any ideas on the proper plays against someone who raises in middle or late position. As we all know, everyone in those position will raise with weaker hands.

[amulet]

you still way too loose vs a solid early raiser. you will have a neg ev to call with KQs, KJs, QJs, AJs, and ATs, also with 88, and 77. if there is a raise you need a top hand to play.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
As we all know, everyone in those position will raise with weaker hands

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone?

b