My First $3/6 Post

[bobbyi]

Howdy all. So apparently they've got poker on the internet now. Who knew? For the past few years I've only been playing b&m (recently, mainly 20/40) and I plan to continue doing so, but I've decided to augment my poker diet with some online play as well. I am starting at 3/6 and want to work my way up from there. So far so good, but the style of play is quite different than the one to which I am accustomed. Not necessarily in any particular direction, it's just that I see a lot of hands played differently than I would expect. So I'm going to be posting some hands here in the future and I hope that those of you with much more experience than me at these games will be able to point out things I might be doing wrong. Here's my first hand. Any help is appreciated. I'm not sure how I feel about how I played this:

Party Poker $3/6 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 (two off the button) calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.16 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (9.16 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls

[Vaftrudner]

Why not raise the flop? /v

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
Why not raise the flop? /v

[/ QUOTE ]
Why raise the flop?

[sthief09]

you'd be getting good value on a flop or turn raise. I like a turn raise as long as you're willing to raise if a minor overcard comes

[Elbie]

This is a draw-heavy flop. You raised preflop. I would raise this flop with top pair/top kicker. If you´re 3-bet by either BB or MP2 you can lay it down on the turn unimproved.

[Vaftrudner]

Not raising the flop (or turn) sucks imho. /v /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
you'd be getting good value on a flop or turn raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
What range of hands do you put an online low-limit player on when he three-bets from the blinds? I figured something like JJ-AA and AK (I've certainly played with plenty of people who would never three-bet JJ and AK from the blinds here, but I know that online players tend to be more aggressive).

[aLOWdAkING]

They also tend to be very loose and reckless. He could have overcards too. You have position, TPTK, on a drawy board.

Raise the flop or turn.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Why raise the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Take control of the hand. Find out where you are. Get money in the pot if you have the best hand i.e. for value.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
I would raise this flop with top pair/top kicker. If you´re 3-bet by either BB or MP2 you can lay it down on the turn unimproved.

[/ QUOTE ]
If BB three-bets the flop, MP2 folds and I call and then BB bets a blank turn, I'll be getting 9-to-1 immediately on the call (a little less, given the rake), plus I'm going to pick up at least one bet on the river if I help. Unless he has AA, I have five outs (I don't have five outs against a straight or a set or two pair involving a nine, but those look very unlikely). You need to weigh AA awfully heavily in his range of hands to be able to lay this down on the turn. You really went from loving our hand to giving him that much credit for specifically AA because he three-bet the flop? I'm having trouble seeing that.

[sthief09]

I apologize. I completely missed the BB's preflop 3-bet. if he's behind he probably only has 3 outs. I like how you played it

[Kenrick]

Looks ok. The BB 3-betting preflop really gums up the whole hand, imo. Raising the flop would probably be for value more than anything since I doubt anyone will fold, but then the 6 comes which may make you think twice about MP2, (although probably not), and you raised pf so no one will think you have a 6. Being last to act doesn't always have benefits.

And then MP2 wakes up on the river, but he could just be taking a shot. I don't see a clear-cut play for this hand. An aggressive player would raise the flop or turn, but I don't know if it would be a better play than just calling down. It's not like you fear an Ace falling since you have one in your hand.

Tough hand. You have the bb being all aggressive with probably nothing, but MP2 keeps sticking around with probably something. If MP2 is sane, I can't see him calling the turn without a PP or a flush draw. Probably two overcards and a flush draw that got there.

[Elbie]

If villain 3-bets the flop I´ll put him on an overpair, KK, QQ, JJ or possibly TT. A call from you on a turn bet from him (as you described) would be marginal but maybe not out of the qusetion.

[Trix]

Looks good to me, pot is too big to use any info you gain from a flop or turnraise.

I think I call the river too, but I dont think it´s far from a raise.

I think you beat MP2 unless he runner runnered or made a big limp preflop, so it depends on whether BB will overcall here. Also depends on MP2´s style postflop, if he is aggro, he would raise any pair on the flop, so he can only have the runner runner or a bluff, so raising arent great.

Most of the MP limpers are passive though, meaning he can hold whatever pair and then betting the river against what looks like 2 overcard hands.

Also depends how weak or aggro BB is, whether he always bets an overpair here or he will get scared of the 3flush, also whether he will check-raise a made flush here.

It´s pretty hard to play this spot correctly without reads, so I´d prolly just call, but I think it´s close.

[bobbyi]

First, thanks a lot to everyone who replied. I found the discussion helpful in clarifying my thinking about the hand. Here was the reasoning behind how I played it. This is not intended to imply that I think that my reasoning was right and the comments people posted were wrong; it's just to explain what the thinking was at the table. I almost certainly missed some important factors or made some logical errors, and that is why I am posting here to try to improve. I hope someone will point out if I am making any errors in my reasoning or in my assumptions about how people in this game tend to play. I don't like posting thoughts with the hand initially because it tends to bias people's replies about how they would play it.

Flop: My experience (mainly from live play) is that even though people are capable of raising and reraising preflop with goofy hands in general, a three-bet from the blinds in a short-handed pot like this almost always means serious business. BB might recognize that I will raise a lot of hands on the button to try to isolate on the weak limper (I'm assuming that anyone who open-limps two off the button is weak), and thus might three-bet some lightish hands to try to get it heads up. But it doesn't seem very likely, especially since he probably can't get it heads up anyway. I'm putting BB primarily on AA-JJ, AK. AQ is a possibility, but I am discounting it quite a bit, and TT may be possible. All other hands are very heavily discounted here. Against AA-JJ,AK , there are 12 combinations of AK and 21 combinations of big pairs (given my holding), so it's almost a 2-1 for him to have a bigger pair than my nines on the flop (assuming he would bet the flop with all of these hands, which he probably would). If I raise and I'm behind, I'm going to get three-bet, so raising costs me two bets (or I'll get check-raised on the turn, but that's even worse). If I raise and I'm ahead, I'll probably get a call from each player, picking up two bets. So I'm risking two bets to win two bets in a situation where I am a 2-1 dog. But it's even worse than it first appears because when I'm ahead, I have five outs at most, but when I'm behind, the field (who are both sticking around) have more than five collective outs. Since I'm behind more often than I'm ahead, and it's harder for me to overtake when I'm behind than to be overtaken when I'm ahead, and I'm looking to gain or lose two bets, I don't see a value raise here. I don't see raising protecting my hand becuase if I'm ahead, both players are calling. I don't think I gain any useful information by raising because if I get three-bet, I'm stuck calling anyway and then calling again on the turn (given the pot size and my likely five outs), so I can't use the information to save money. I really don't think raising the flop would be right.

Turn: Let's examine how the situation has changed from the flop. It's unlikely that the turn card helped anyone. It's hard to imagine that card improving BB and if it were one of MP2's outs, he almost certainly would have raised the turn. However, I think that my chance of being behind has went up because I would expect BB to fire on the flop almost 100% of the time with AK/AQ after reraising preflop, but to sometimes slow down on the turn. The fact that he is firing another barrel increases the likelihood that he has an overpair rather than overcards. Or do people in this game almost always bet again here with AK out of position against two people who called the flop? I don't know. But at the time, I thought the bet somewhat (although not heavily) discounted him having overcards. That makes raising look less good than on the flop. But, on the other hand, there are factors that make it look better. The most important is that I think he is less likely to three-bet with an overpair than he would be on the flop. This is another place where I'm hurt by not knowing the game. Given the way this has played out so far, how likely is he to find a three-bet on the turn if he has QQ? Also, my chance of being overtaken has decreased since if I'm ahead, they only have one more card to hit. Obviously, my chance of overtaking if I'm behind has also gone down, but since they (collectively) have a lot more outs than I do, I think this works in my favor. Overall, I think reraising here looks better than on the flop. However, there are still so many more combinations of big pairs than overcards, that I still think I'm behind too often to raise for value and, again, I am going to be stuck calling a three-bet, so figuring out that I'm behind won't save me money. So I called.

River: Trix's analysis here is identical to mine. BB checking almost certainly means he just had overcards. I'm not very worried about him. The question is whether MP2 has me beat and whether I can get an overcall from BB. I thought an overcall was unlikely (yes?), so by raising I'm risking two bets to win one, assuming I will call a reraise. If I can fold, I'm risking one bet to win one. This is the only street where I seriously considered raising while playing the hand. I decided that if MP2 had some pair I could beat, he probably would have raised at some point or would check the river. If he is so passive as to call all the way with it, he probably wouldn't value bet this river either. I just found it hard to imagine him betting a hand I could beat, except for a bluff which won't pay off a raise. Otherwise, it seemed more likely he caught the backdoor flush or made a ridiculuous slowplay than that he was value betting 44 or that he has 9T, was timid the whole way, and is now springing to life. So I just called. BB folded. MP2 had Q/images/graemlins/club.gifJ/images/graemlins/club.gif and took the pot (good read by Kendrick).

Thanks again to all who responded. I'm sure as I keep playing this game I'll be posting more hands.

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
Howdy all. So apparently they've got poker on the internet now. Who knew? For the past few years I've only been playing b&amp;m (recently, mainly 20/40) and I plan to continue doing so, but I've decided to augment my poker diet with some online play as well. I am starting at 3/6 and want to work my way up from there. So far so good, but the style of play is quite different than the one to which I am accustomed. Not necessarily in any particular direction, it's just that I see a lot of hands played differently than I would expect. So I'm going to be posting some hands here in the future and I hope that those of you with much more experience than me at these games will be able to point out things I might be doing wrong. Here's my first hand. Any help is appreciated. I'm not sure how I feel about how I played this:

Party Poker $3/6 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 (two off the button) calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.16 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (9.16 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls

[/ QUOTE ]

I really like the way you played this.

scrub