Range of hands

[Toro]

I'm always amazed with hands that some players will call with. In the hand shown below, what range of hands do you think this player could have to make this call?

PokerStars Game #1197942975: Tournament #5121760, Hold'em No Limit - Level X (400/800) - 2005/02/10 - 21:07:01 (ET)
Table '5121760 26' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: ACES H.O.E (23680 in chips)
Seat 2: MUCKICIDE (22240 in chips)
Seat 3: torstanko (17920 in chips)
Seat 4: noahlizard (35440 in chips)
Seat 5: mamalove11 (11550 in chips)
Seat 6: Toro85 (24105 in chips)
Seat 7: fuzzybugs (23865 in chips)
Seat 8: pons44a (37855 in chips)
Seat 9: biggi (12390 in chips)
ACES H.O.E: posts the ante 50
MUCKICIDE: posts the ante 50
torstanko: posts the ante 50
noahlizard: posts the ante 50
mamalove11: posts the ante 50
Toro85: posts the ante 50
fuzzybugs: posts the ante 50
pons44a: posts the ante 50
biggi: posts the ante 50
Toro85: posts small blind 400
fuzzybugs: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Toro85 [6s 6h]
pons44a: folds
biggi: folds
ACES H.O.E: folds
MUCKICIDE: folds
torstanko: calls 800
noahlizard: folds
mamalove11: calls 800
Toro85: calls 400
fuzzybugs: raises 4800 to 5600
torstanko: folds
mamalove11: folds
Toro85: raises 18455 to 24055 and is all-in
fuzzybugs: calls 18215 and is all-in

[Prime Time]

Not considering buy in amount, players to money etc, as well as how your are being percieved by others by previous plays and what you have shown down.

I would say AK, JJ, QQ, KK and AA.

[UOPokerPlayer]

10's and up
AK and AQ

[Firefly]

Once he raises from the BB I'd put him on:
AA-TT. I think he sees the flop with 88-22. Also included: AK,AQ,AJ,AT(Though AJ and AT are looser) possibly KQ.
To make that call...with a big stack, i'd call with..
AK, possibly AQ...AA-TT. I have seen people call with something like 55, hopeing for a coinflip.

[fnord_too]

Does villain have a history of stealing after multiple limpers? (I know I like to, but not many people do). I'm guessing so, or your play does not make a lot of sense.

So, from his perspective what do you have? Not a big pair, and probably not a big ace, since you would certainly raise those from the sb. What would you just call with? Suited connectors, small pair, maybe something like JK. Now he is getting what? about 15:9 on his call. If he is thinking along these lines, he can call with a lot figuring he is probably in at worst a 60/40 situation with whatever he has. I'll say any pair, any suited connector, any ace or king, and maybe any of suited connector down to JT.

[Toro]

I did not have a read on this player at all but I've been seeing so many BB raises after a bunch of limpers that I'm suspecting that a lot of them are just steals, thus my play. You're not going to believe what he called with. Here is the rest of the HH history. I actually put him on an ace, not necessarily big and thought I was going to be a coin flip after he called.


*** FLOP *** [8h 4d Qh]
*** TURN *** [8h 4d Qh] [Tc]
*** RIVER *** [8h 4d Qh Tc] [5h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Toro85: shows [6s 6h] (a pair of Sixes)
fuzzybugs: shows [5c 6c] (a pair of Fives)
Toro85 collected 49680 from pot
Toro85 said, "wtf"
torstanko said, "gg"
PokerED is connected
ECNHAN [observer] said, "lol"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 49680 | Rake 0
Board [8h 4d Qh Tc 5h]
Seat 1: ACES H.O.E folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: MUCKICIDE folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: torstanko folded before Flop
Seat 4: noahlizard folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: mamalove11 (button) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Toro85 (small blind) showed [6s 6h] and won (49680) with a pair of Sixes
Seat 7: fuzzybugs (big blind) showed [5c 6c] and lost with a pair of Fives
Seat 8: pons44a folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: biggi folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[SossMan]

soooooted

[Rushmore]

Inexplicable. It's beyond reason. I guess the range would read TT-AA, AK, AQ, or 56s.

I'm not sure I love your play here, though.

I know it's semi-standard for many players, but it's not my favorite approach. I mean, when you're called, you're often done and gone.

Taking a flop with pocket sixes against three deep stacks isn't the worst thing in the world, even out of bad position (maybe especially out of bad position).

Total disagreement?

[Toro]

I agree my play was a big gamble but I've been seeing this BB raise after a bunch of limpers way too much lately and my gut feeling was that he was stealing. And even if he had a legit hand, I thought I was at least ahead with the pair.

But I didn't want to just call out of position since virtually any flop would look threatening to my low pair. So I figured if he was stealing, he would fold to my big re-raise. Lucky for me, he didn't.

[Prime Time]

What type of buy in was it, and how far from money?
Did you mention what the ave stack was?

Not saying the play was correct, just trying to guage at what level these players are coming from.

[Toro]

Well this may explain it because it was the cheap $5 re-buy tourney. But after you have a few hours invested and first place is $3733, you would expect players to play a little better because now you're talking about real money you could win.

Average stack was about 18,000.

[fnord_too]

I don't know where you were at in the tourney, but I don't think the call is as horrible as it seems. I think it is probably bad, since small pairs are in your likely holdings and he could easily have two unders, but as I stated above, your play does not suggest a big hand, and against something like KJ, A8s, etc. he is getting odds to call. (I figured you won the hand though, since in my experience your posts that look like bad beats in disguise are hands you won /images/graemlins/smile.gif )

I need to get off my ass and finish working on this all in call analysis I am doing. Calls like villains here look very wreckless, but they are no where near as bad as people make them out to be, and are often correct I think.

If it had folded to you in the sb and you completed and he raised, I think you have a much more folding equity.