A hand against Tommy. AKA "Am I a wuss?"

[haakee]

Ten-handed Bay 101 80-160. It's a tough game and this is my last hand before I rack up and head out. UTG open-raises. He's a little too loose, a little too aggro. I 3-bet UTG+2 with QQ. Folded to Tommy Angelo who cold-calls in the BB. UTG calls.

Flop: 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. Checked to me. I bet. Both call.

Turn: rag. Checked to me. I bet. Both call.

River: 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. It helps nobody. Checked to me. I check because WTF is Tommy cold-calling out of the big blind and calling down with?

Constructive and destructive criticisms welcome.

[TStoneMBD]

bet

[DrGutshot]

bet and beat tommy's JJ,TT, or AKh. He could not have any other hand.

-DrG

[A_C_Slater]

Don't let his pretentious image intimidate you. That's part of his plan.

Value bet the bastard. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Cornell Fiji]

Bet. Tommy will need quads in order to raise here.

Seriously though, wouldn't Tommy be raising a set here on the turn and wouldn't he also cap with AA or KK pf? Given these assumptions are true I can't put him on a single hand that beats you but put him on a few that might pay you off.

-Steve

[etizzle]

wow

[China Willy]

Fold your hand out of turn on the end and tell him what it was when he tables his own.

-CW

[elysium]

hi haakee

well played.

[BWebb]

For all those who bash Tommy's play non-stop, at least acknowledge this is a powerful benefit of his style.

[astroglide]

cool i thought he only played 20/40

[Chris Daddy Cool]

holy [censored] i wish i could put the fear of God in people's hearts by simply check-calling.

[andyfox]

"Folded to Tommy Angelo who cold-calls in the BB."

Had to read that three times to make sure I read it right. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

"WTF is Tommy cold-calling out of the big blind and calling down with?"

A case of Two Plus Two equalling five.

[sfer]

You're not worried about getting raised. You're worried about your hand being good when Tommy calls you.

I'm happy this got posted because playing against Tommy seems pretty easy when you know his cards but totally opaque otherwise.

[haakee]

Exactly. I'm pretty much never getting raised here. Tommy is calling for the overcall in the case that he's ahead.

[M2d]

with the third person in there, I think I'd fire once again. As someone pointed out (based on Tommy's posts recently), Tommy's probably smooth calling if he has you beat or if he is beaten. Your probable investment is one big bet.
how aggro is the other guy? is he one of those paranoid aggro guys? the ones who keep firing with A high, then assume that everyone else is firing with a-high? If he's one of those, you can be sure that he's calling the river. fire away.
if he's one of those guys who'll call till the river but muck if he misses, then you gotta think a little, but I still think that you should bet because he still acts as a buffer for you.

[TStoneMBD]

i play against tight passive players every day, and while i would rather play against loose passives, tight passives are very profitable to play against. maybe taking passive lines against certain players are correct, but against players who know that you are a passive calling station, its terrible.

[imported_stealthcow]

i think you're ahead

and that its not even close

stealthcow-

[Joe Tall]

You have officially taken your seat; found your rank.

[J.A.Sucker]

You are a wuss. Bet.

[andyfox]

I think it is close. It may even be a tie.

[Gabe]

"WTF is Tommy cold-calling out of the big blind and calling down with?"

Pocket pair. Maybe big Ah. I'd say JJ or TT would be a big favorite.

[Joe Tall]

Pocket pair. Maybe big Ah. I'd say JJ or TT would be a big favorite

Set of 9s.

[kemystery]

KK is a possibility, I think the bet is a wash
but only because of TA's image. Anyone else, bet dark.

BTW wtf are you doing 3-betting UTG+2 in that game? Are you crazy? I call and fold any flop not containing a Q /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[mmcd]

Tommy shows AA?

[Tommy Angelo]

"i thought he only played 20/40"

I tend to move up every dozen years or so.

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
Ten-handed Bay 101 80-160. It's a tough game and this is my last hand before I rack up and head out. UTG open-raises. He's a little too loose, a little too aggro. I 3-bet UTG+2 with QQ. Folded to Tommy Angelo who cold-calls in the BB. UTG calls.

Flop: 9 3 2 . Checked to me. I bet. Both call.

Turn: rag. Checked to me. I bet. Both call.

River: 2 . It helps nobody. Checked to me. I check because WTF is Tommy cold-calling out of the big blind and calling down with?

Constructive and destructive criticisms welcome.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tommy will just call with JJ-AA. TT probably, but less likely as he's said they're like a pair of dueces there. He'll want to see if UTG will cap.

He'd fold any AK except AKh on the turn. He'd bet AA on the river and check-call but not raise with TT-KK. JJ or KK most likely. 50-50. Value bet.

[ggbman]

I've got to think your good here. Does Tommy really not three best with aces of kings preflop? Does he really not raise a set on the turn? As someone suggested, i would guess that TT, JJ, and AhKh makes up his holding a large percentage of the time. I think you should value bet this. How often is he really checking a set on the river?

[AviD]

[ QUOTE ]
How often is he really checking a set on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably more than you are giving him credit for.

[J_V]

As much as Tommy hates the big blind. He says he only folds pairs preflop about three times a year. So, my guess is that all Tommy has here are pairs. You are ahead of most of them, thus I would bet.

I hope you guys chopped.

[J_V]

Are you permanently moved up? Some cool Tommy hands as an 80-160 anti-floater would rule. I might be able to find an anti-floater t-shirt, in superman colors.

[Turning Stone Pro]

Good lord, Tommy must play worse than even he leads us to believe!!

Only hand he could possible have here and still be anything other than a total loose-passive guppy is AK. and boy, he played it terrible.

Bet and take it down.

TSP

[DMBFan23]

I think the probabilities of AA, KK here are not zero.

[PassiveCaller]

Just because I don't see "wtf Tommy cold-calling out of the big blind and calling down with" as a valid reason to check I bet the river. While Tommy may not call the river I think you have to bet especially with the aggro guy that's too loose. There's value in the bet and there's hands that Tommy might even call you with on the river if the aggro guy folds that you might win to.

[Turning Stone Pro]

Ordinarily, against a player who can spell the word "poker", I would vehemently disagree. However, against Angelo I guess you couldn't completely rule it out.

I still think you have to bet it, though.

TSP

[DMBFan23]

haha, I'd disagree too normally.

but yeah, divide the stakes by 10 (where I'd be playing) and it looks like a bet. I'm not really qualified to judge the unknown players at 80-160 though, or tommy for that matter. I just read tommy's posts where he calls down with monsters.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll briefly come out of my sabbatical to respond to this one

[/ QUOTE ]

jesus you are pathetic. please keep your starts and stops to yourself and just post or play when you feel like it.

[haakee]

Tommy acted immediately after me, so he wouldn't know whether the aggro guy was folding on the river unless he picked up a tell.

[haakee]

Any other player here and I value bet the river without thinking about it. I've read too many of Tommy's posts.

Anyway, MHIG. UTG had 77. I'll let Tommy tell you guys what he had here.

[lil feller]

There is like a zero percent chance that Tommy tells us what he had...and neither should you.

nice hand

lf

[PassiveCaller]

Today definitely seems to be poor wording day for me. I meant more of an either/or type situation.

[DMBFan23]

I think tommy tells us more about his style with his own hand posts than he could possibly tell us by revealing his hand here.

[Alexthegreat]

I think I read an article Tommy wrote about disclosure of information, and towards the end of it I think he mentioned something about "never tell the groupies on 2+2 what you had that one time in that one hand that you lost to that one guy"

It was a sweet article.

[andyfox]

Once, in a no-limit hand, in which both Tommy and I participated, but neither of us won, when it was over Tommy asked me what I had had. "Pocket jacks," I lied.

A bit later, he asked me if I really had pocket jacks. I asked him why it mattered. He said because he had pocket jacks too.

Good thing he didn't ask me what color they were.

We have a better relationship now and I only lie to him about more important things.

[lil feller]

[ QUOTE ]

I think tommy tells us more about his style with his own hand posts than he could possibly tell us by revealing his hand here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not that its worth debating, but I don't think Tommy tells us a damn thing about his playing style by the hands he posts here. Almost every one of them involves Tommy being out of position with a weak hand, and he plays it exactly as he should, cautiously. The only information you can consistenly gleen from Tommy's posts are that he is SUPER aware of position and meta-game considerations. If you are picking up anything that I'm not, please let me know, I plan on taking a CA poker road trip this spring, and I hope to get to see Mr. Angelo in action.

lf

[Dantes]

[ QUOTE ]
Any other player here and I value bet the river without thinking about it. I've read too many of Tommy's posts.

Anyway, MHIG. UTG had 77. I'll let Tommy tell you guys what he had here.

[/ QUOTE ]

so in otherwords, you checked the river, UTG turned over 77 out of turn and you proudly turned up QQ without waiting to see what tommy would do.

[PassiveCaller]

hahaha. that's about the ideal ending of that hand without winning it for tommy. as the cards fly into the muck and the war of information continues.......

[CanKid]

Nice

[dankhank]

tommy had KK but quietly folded it since he knew the hand would be posted here. he is a ninja.

[ggbman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How often is he really checking a set on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably more than you are giving him credit for.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this argument at all. Tommy probably folds 33 and 22, and thus you are checking the river putting him specifically on 99, which isn't consistent with just calling the flop and turn and checking the river. You'de have to be positive someone was going to bet. Checking a set here is bad.

[haakee]

[ QUOTE ]
so in otherwords, you checked the river, UTG turned over 77 out of turn and you proudly turned up QQ without waiting to see what tommy would do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tommy showed. Very quickly in fact. I just respect his desire to keep his hands secret. Although now you know it wasn't AA, KK, QQ, or 99.

[surfdoc]

It depends if:
[ QUOTE ]
I called, planning to fold on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]