About von Neumann

[Daliman]

I'm about 2 chapters into "Prisoner's Dilemma", which so far has been a John von Neumann biography, and I am astounded by the fact that he could remember EVERY SINGLE WORD of books he had read years before! I was wondering if this kind if memoryis a hallmark of intelligence in general or just a kind of savantism(?). Seems to me that al those words floating around constantly in my head would be somewhat incapacitating, but that was obviously not the case with von Neumann.

Also, how is von Neumann pronouced?
von nooman
von noyman
von nyumen

I seem to bounce between all three at any given time, but I'd guess that the proper way it is/was actually pronounced was #3, but it was americanized to #1.

[scrub]

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I'm about 2 chapters into "Prisoner's Dilemma", which so far has been a John von Neumann biography, and I am astounded by the fact that he could remember EVERY SINGLE WORD of books he had read years before! I was wondering if this kind if memoryis a hallmark of intelligence in general or just a kind of savantism(?). Seems to me that al those words floating around constantly in my head would be somewhat incapacitating, but that was obviously not the case with von Neumann.

Also, how is von Neumann pronouced?
von nooman
von noyman
von nyumen

I seem to bounce between all three at any given time, but I'd guess that the proper way it is/was actually pronounced was #3, but it was americanized to #1.

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My CS profs in college pronounced it Von Noyman.

scrub

[edtost]

as do the math/physics profs.

[jdl22]

The o in von is pronounced like the o in gone. The eu is pronounced like the vowel sound in boy. Emphasis on the first syllable in Neumann.

[scrub]

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as do the math/physics profs.

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I didn't have too many math/physics profs who pronounced anything right (I didn't make it to very many of the 103/104 demos.../images/graemlins/smile.gif)

scrub

[scrub]

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as do the math/physics profs.

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Plus, I always think of CS 126 as the real Von Neuman fanboy class that I took.

scrub

[nolanfan34]

Not picking on Daliman, but what's with the sudden influx of threads in NVG that belong in OOT? Unless there's a poker connection I'm missing.

Just something I observed.

[edtost]

i didn't make it to many of the cos126 lectures.... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[scrub]

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i didn't make it to many of the cos126 lectures.... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

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Truth be told, neither did I, but the first week or he was constantly getting referenced.

scrub

[edtost]

conway's chair was named after von neumann, and i also took a programming course in the physics dept that was taught by an american (i know, i know, you don't believe that, but it's true)

[edtost]

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i didn't make it to many of the cos126 lectures.... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

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Truth be told, neither did I, but the first week or he was constantly getting referenced.

scrub

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i thought that class was back when you were still acting like a student?

[scrub]

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i didn't make it to many of the cos126 lectures.... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

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Truth be told, neither did I, but the first week or he was constantly getting referenced.

scrub

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i thought that class was back when you were still acting like a student?

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Yeah, but 126 lecture was pretty useless--it turned out there wasn't a lot of material in the course that I hadn't seen somewhere before, and the guy posted his powerpoint slides to the website.

scrub

[Daliman]

Ok, well, I wanted to tell people something about a figure whose connection to poker via Game theory is becoming more and more apparent all the time. It was new to me, and is likely new to most. Sounds like NEWS.


Considering DS posted about Von Neumann and others he considers the smartest men in history in the WPT forum, I guess I figured this was a bit of a VIEW on someone he had referenced, but I did not consider WPT forum the proper place for it.

I was also wondering if anyone was familiar with anyone else having memory similar to this. Wanted opinions on whether they felt it is often more of a burden to people who are like this. Sounds like GOSSIP to me.

Finally, as stated before, his contribution to gaming in general is irrefutable, therefore it has a place in GENERAL GAMBLING.

Anything else, or would you like noogies too? /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[SCfuji]

NOY

[MrDannimal]

His daughter is a professor here at the U of Michigan, and I used to be the sys admin for her school/dept. It's definitely "noy", but she isn't a huge fan of her dad (apparently, he spent more time "at work" then "at home").

[knifeandfork]

on exceptional memory. most fairly intelligent people can "learn" exceptional memory. if its something that interests you personally look for accelerated learning classes or speed reading classes in your area you'll be surprised the "tricks" you can perform after 6 weeks (more or less) of good instruction. now remembering every word of every book he ever read is probably an exaggeration, thought certainly possible imho. I dunno if this helps at all as your motive may be more specifically VN's memory. fwiw,
jason

[Masquerade]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm about 2 chapters into "Prisoner's Dilemma", which so far has been a John von Neumann biography, and I am astounded by the fact that he could remember EVERY SINGLE WORD of books he had read years before!

[/ QUOTE ]

Jonny was a very clever fellow but no-one could possibly remember books verbatim.

[Daliman]

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[ QUOTE ]
I'm about 2 chapters into "Prisoner's Dilemma", which so far has been a John von Neumann biography, and I am astounded by the fact that he could remember EVERY SINGLE WORD of books he had read years before!

[/ QUOTE ]

Jonny was a very clever fellow but no-one could possibly remember books verbatim.

[/ QUOTE ]
While this sounds obvious, it's not. I believe the author, and I think it has been written/said about Von Neumann before. As I said before, I think it;s some form of savantism, Similar to the blind/brain damaged/cerebral palsy suffering savant leslie Lemke, who could play any piano piece back verbatim after hearing it only once. Here is an online article about him;



Leslie Lemke: An Inspirational Performance

Darold Treffert, MD

Leslie Lemke photo by Ethan Hill of New York, New York."Leslie Lemke is a memorable man." That was Morley Safer's description of Leslie after he watched him play the piano as part of a 60 Minutes program in 1983 on savant syndrome. Dustin Hoffman watched the program and was "moved to tears" by Leslie. When the movie script Rainman came to Hollywood, Dustin Hoffman reported, "I thought, I love him. I want to play a savant." And he did. Savant became a household word.

The story of Leslie Lemke begins in Milwaukee in 1952. His mother gave him up for adoption at birth. As a complication of his premature birth, Leslie developed retinal problems, then glaucoma, and his eyes had to be surgically removed in the first months of life. There was also brain damage, and Leslie was extremely ill. The county asked May Lemke, a nurse-governess who they knew and trusted, if she would take Leslie into her receiving home, ill as he was and carrying such a dire prognosis. That didn't deter May. At age 52, and having raised five children of her own, May Lemke said she would. And she did.

In a modest cottage on Lake Pewaukee where she lived with her husband, Joe, May loved and tended to Leslie like a frail little flower. She taught him how to swallow so he could eat and how to make sounds so he could communicate. When he was able, May literally strapped his fragile body to hers to teach him how, a step at a time, to walk. She put his hands over hers as she played simple tunes on a piano she got for him. And she sang to him.

Leslie LemkeLeslie was intrigued with music and rhythm as a child. Once he was found under the bed strumming the springs in a wondrous tune. He also had a remarkable memory and would often repeat verbatim, intonations and all, a whole day's conversation he had overheard from whomever he might be visiting. Leslie played and sang often, but mostly the simple tunes May sang or popular songs from the radio. May wasn't into classical music.

But one evening when Leslie was about age 14, Joe and May watched, and Leslie listened, to a television Sunday Night Movie. In the early morning hours May heard music. She thought Joe had left the television on. She went to turn it off and there was Leslie, playing flawlessly from beginning to end, having heard it but once, tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No. 1, which was the theme song for that movie. God's miracle, May said, came into full bloom that night.

As a way of sharing God's gift of Leslie's music, May began having Leslie play some concerts at the county fair, in churches, and at schools. In June 1980 Leslie gave a concert in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. Amazed by what they had seen--a young blind man, mentally handicapped, with cerebral palsy, and never having had a music lesson in his life playing what seemed like a limitless repertoire and repeating flawlessly whatever was played to him after a single hearing--a local television station brought tapes to me, as the local mental health authority, to see if there was some explanation for this astonishing ability. I explained that this was truly extraordinary, very rare circumstance called the savant syndrome--islands of genius in an otherwise severely mentally handicapped person. This was a condition I was familiar with and had become interested in when running a Children's Unit in a hospital in Wisconsin.

There happened to be a reporter in that meeting, and the wire service picked up the story of this remarkable young man and his equally remarkable mother. Walter Cronkite used that story for his CBS Evening News program that December. He introduced the segment with, "This is a season that celebrates a miracle, and this story belongs to the season. It's the story of a young man, a piano, and a miracle." Other programs, including Donahue, That's Incredible, and Oprah hosted May and Leslie. The 60 Minutes program aired in October of 1983. Morley Safer considers it one of his favorite 10 stories, and Leslie was part of the 25th Anniversary edition of that show in 1993.

Leslie has given concerts throughout the United States. In 1984 he gave a command performance by invitation for the Crown Prince and Princess in Norway and also has been on tour in Japan. Today he continues to give concerts but, just as often, plays for free at a school, a nursing home, a prison, or a church.

In the 1980s, May's health began to fail with Alzheimer's disease. May had vowed that Leslie would never be institutionalized, and he never was. May's youngest daughter, Mary, took both May and Leslie into her home in 1984 as May's Alzheimer's progressed. For a time May lived with her other daughter, Pat. But after Daddy Joe's death in 1987, May returned to Mary's home to be near Leslie. Mary vowed that her mother would never be in a nursing home, and she wasn't. As May's memory faded, it was only Leslie and his music that could bring those memories to life. "That's my boy," May would say as they sang together. Then when the music stopped, May would fade to silence once again. Just as she had brought Leslie to life, Leslie could bring her to life--a touching payback of sorts. May died at Mary's home on November 6, 1993.

Leslie now lives with May's daughter. Mary Parker, in Arpin, Wisconsin. There was concern that Leslie might stop his music with May's death, as had happened with some savants in the past. But it was not so with Leslie; he continues to play and perform. Music is Leslie's language, and it has been a conduit toward normalization for him. With his music he is more animated, smiles more, talks more, and one can even see a sense of humor emerging. Now he not only repeats a song accurately after hearing it only once, he improvises and, yes, even composes new songs with his own words and effects. His repertoire seems bottomless, his recall seams boundless. Professional musicians marvel at his innate knowledge of the rules of music. Leslie has never had a music lesson in his life.

Savant syndrome is rare. But even more rare are the so-called prodigious savants--handicapped persons who have skills that would be remarkable even if they were to occur in a normal person. There are probably less than 100 prodigious savants described in this last century. Leslie is one in a billion.

Leslie's Miracle of Love Ministries, as Mary as named it, has as its goal the sharing of Leslie's gift as an inspiration to handicapped persons and their families, and as a spiritual renewal for all of us. It is a gift Mary has chosen to share, rather than exploit, and it is in this spirit that Leslie gives all of his concerts.

There is some scientific inquiry about savant syndrome, and it poses some vital questions toward understanding ourselves more fully. But May's explanation when Morley Safer asked her how Leslie can do what he does, is as good as any. "Well, I think, because the brain was damaged, a part of the brain--the musical part--God left perfectly healthy and beautiful so Leslie could have a talent. And he got it!" He certainly did, and we are it's beneficiaries.



An Update on Leslie Lemke (10-15-03)
Many people remember Leslie Lemke from the very memorable 1983 60 Minutes program on savant syndrome, featuring him along with Alonzo the sculptor and George the calendar calculator. Often inquires come asking "Whatever happened to Leslie Lemke?" A concert in Appleton, Wisconsin last night (10/13/03) answers that question convincingly, and inspirationally. Leslie Lemke is as talented, as energetic, as marvelous and as touching as ever. An inspired concert audience of 1200 persons will attest to that.

Leslie's concert was the culmination of a week-long event in Appleton, Wisconsin called Celebrating Abilities hosted by a wide group of local Fox Cities organizations spontaneously collaborating, and volunteering, to inspire the community to celebrate the ABILITIES of each person, regardless of their disabilities. Celebrating Abilities included other presentations to school and community groups, as an opportunity for everyone to shine the spotlight on the many contributions disabled persons make throughout the area, and to make the Cities overall a better place to live for persons with special needs.

Lesle Lemke and Mary ParkerThe concert began with Leslie entering the lighted stage from the darkened wings singing Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound" a capella, and ended with the audience singing and waving goodbye, touched and affected, to the strains of Edelwiess. In between was a demonstration of marvelous musical ability and genius in an incredibly gifted man. Shining through the concert as well, however, was the propelling power of love, dedication, belief and hope that Leslie's family demonstrates as Mary Parker, May's daughter, unselfishly carries on May's miracle. May died in 1993 but the miracle, and the music, continue.

But the concerts such as this are fewer now, in fact infrequent, which made this an even more memorable, important and precious event. The concerts are fewer not because of the loss of energy, talent or ability on Leslie's part, but because of the colossal effort involved in having Leslie travel, and because of some health limitations on Mary's part. For those reasons the concert was videotaped, and audio taped, and arrangements are being made to make both available to interested persons. As those become available they will be listed on this web site along with procedures for obtaining them.

Blind Tom was listed in his day at "the eighth wonder of the world." That would make Leslie the Ninth. On a personal level, during this remarkable concert experience, my scientific interest in synapses and circuits was overshadowed and superceded by the human interest that Leslie Lemke's story generates in terms of his unique person and potential, and in terms of how often families, like his, unselfishly and proudly go forward filling the special needs of their loved one, relishing and focusing so zealously those talents, attributes and a-bilities that are present even if some other skills are absent or compromised. As to the scientific question, May answered it this way: "Well, I think the brain was damaged. But a part of the brain-the musical part-God left perfectly healthy and beautiful so Leslie could have a talent. And he got it!"

He certainly did, and we are its beneficiaries.

A 28 minute broadcast quality VHS videotape produced by the Weyerhaeuser Corporation featuring Leslie Lemke in a 1986 concert is available. It contains the story and pictures of Leslie's early life with his foster mother, May Lemke, as related by May's daughter, Mary Parker, with whom Leslie now resides. Included also is a portion of the memorable 1983 60 Minutes program which featured Leslie, the pianist, along with Alonzo, the sculptor, and George, the Calendar Calculator. It is an excellent portrait of Leslie's piano playing and vocal abilities along with his remarkable imitative and improvisory vocal and instrumental skills. The tape is available for $ 24.00, postpaid, from:

Darold A. Treffert, M.D.
Behavioral Health Services
St. Agnes Hospital
430 East Division Street
Fond du Lac, Wisconsin 54935

[Beerfund]

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I'm about 2 chapters into "Prisoner's Dilemma", which so far has been a John von Neumann biography, and I am astounded by the fact that he could remember EVERY SINGLE WORD of books he had read years before!

[/ QUOTE ]

Jonny was a very clever fellow but no-one could possibly remember books verbatim.

[/ QUOTE ]
While this sounds obvious, it's not. I believe the author, and I think it has been written/said about Von Neumann before. As I said before, I think it;s some form of savantism, Similar to the blind/brain damaged/cerebral palsy suffering savant leslie Lemke, who could play any piano piece back verbatim after hearing it only once. Here is an online article about him;

While this sounds obvious, it's not. I believe the author, and I think it has been written/said about Von Neumann before. As I said before, I think it;s some form of savantism, Similar to the blind/brain damaged/cerebral palsy suffering savant leslie Lemke, who could play any piano p

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Nice post Dali, not confusing at all. Anyway, you're right about his ability to memerize books verbatim. I think what's even more impressive is learning an entire language in only a few days as William Sidis did.

[jdl22]

von Neumann apparently could read a phone book page and later recite all the names on numbers on the page. I'm sure he could do the same with a novel.

[Daliman]

Sorry bout the initial incarnation of previous post. Had a little accident with the cut n' paste. Anyways, it's fixed now.

[uuDevil]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm about 2 chapters into "Prisoner's Dilemma", which so far has been a John von Neumann biography, and I am astounded by the fact that he could remember EVERY SINGLE WORD of books he had read years before!

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Jonny was a very clever fellow but no-one could possibly remember books verbatim.

[/ QUOTE ]

From a sidebar in my psych 101 text:

In the 1920's, a Russian phsychologist, Aleksandr Luria, met a newspaper reporter, "S." ... S had an unlimited ability to remember things... Luria described S at a session 15 years after their original meetings:

S. would sit with his eyes closed, pause, then comment: "Yes, yes... Ths was a series you gave me once when we were in your apartment... You were sitting at the table and I in the rocking chair... You were wearing a grey suit and you looked at me like this... Now, then, I can see you saying..." And with that he world reel off the series precisely as I had given it to him at the earlier session."


Unfortunately for S, the mechanism that made his memory work interfered with other simple activities like reading. His mind would be so filled with images that he couldn't focus on the important points in the text.

[Daliman]

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[ QUOTE ]
I'm about 2 chapters into "Prisoner's Dilemma", which so far has been a John von Neumann biography, and I am astounded by the fact that he could remember EVERY SINGLE WORD of books he had read years before!

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Jonny was a very clever fellow but no-one could possibly remember books verbatim.

[/ QUOTE ]

From a sidebar in my psych 101 text:

In the 1920's, a Russian phsychologist, Aleksandr Luria, met a newspaper reporter, "S." ... S had an unlimited ability to remember things... Luria described S at a session 15 years after their original meetings:

S. would sit with his eyes closed, pause, then comment: "Yes, yes... Ths was a series you gave me once when we were in your apartment... You were sitting at the table and I in the rocking chair... You were wearing a grey suit and you looked at me like this... Now, then, I can see you saying..." And with that he world reel off the series precisely as I had given it to him at the earlier session."


Unfortunately for S, the mechanism that made his memory work interfered with other simple activities like reading. His mind would be so filled with images that he couldn't focus on the important points in the text.

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I think this may be the same person mentioned in Prisoners dilemma in reference to VN's skill. It was said he went mad.

[nolanfan34]

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Ok, well, I wanted to tell people something about a figure whose connection to poker via Game theory is becoming more and more apparent all the time. It was new to me, and is likely new to most. Sounds like NEWS.

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That answers my question. I wasn't aware of the connection. Buh ah ain't vurry smaht eitha.

[jason_t]

Von Neumann is one of the gods of Game Theory. I haven't read this book in over four years, so correct me please if I misremembering here, but I recall that he tried to learn to play poker using his ideas and loved the game but failed miserably at poker but kept going back to play like the fish we love oh so dearly.

His surname is pronounced von NOYmann, and he is a god in computer science, mathematics and mathematical physics.

[jason_t]

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Jonny was a very clever fellow but no-one could possibly remember books verbatim.

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Read the book The Man Who Mistook His Wife for A Hat by Oliver Sacks for a look at how unbelieveably strange the brain can act.

[Dr. Strangelove]

not to be a nit but it should be very close to "phone noymun"

the u in mun sounding like the u in nun. or an upside down e.
and "von" being somewhere between "phone" and "fun."

[Daliman]

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not to be a nit but it should be very close to "phone noymun"

the u in mun sounding like the u in nun. or an upside down e.
and "von" being somewhere between "phone" and "fun."

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Figured that, ty.