Poker Faces- David M. Hayano - Recommendation

[Dead]

I just finished reading the book Poker Faces, by David M. Hayano.

I checked this book out from my college's library last week, and read it cover to cover.

It's not a strategy book at all. In fact, it is quite an old book. It was copyrighted in 1982. This book is written by an anthropology professor who lived in California and played in the Gardena cardrooms outside of Los Angeles for months.

Hayano started out at the smallest stakes and eventually was playing limits like $20/$40. Draw high and lowball were the only two games available in Gardena at the time, apparently, so these are the two games that the book discusses.

This book is about a few things. It's about what Hayano believes it takes to be a professional player, his interactions with his former gamblers, qualities and attitudes of winners, losers, cheating frequency in casinos and the techniques he saw utilized and was told about, etc.

It really is a fascinating read, and I strongly recommend this book to anyone who wants to read it.

One thing I disliked about it, however, is the author's belief that going broke is an eventuality for poker players, and that it will happen frequently. Maybe it is easier to go broke playing draw and lowball cash games than the games of today, I dunno.

But it was a great read.

-Dead

[Dead]

It might be outta print now.

[andyfox]

It is out of print. David plays/works at Commerce, at the 80-160 level or higher, or at least he did until a while ago. Haven't seen him in a bit, perhaps snakehead knows what's become of him. I played in a game with him once, when he was slumming in 30-60, and beat him in a hand and he didn't take it very well. He is known, or was, as "The Hand," because of the way he bets.

The book is academic in tone and language. I enjoyed it when it first came out, as I had just gotten out of college and into the Gardena poker scene, just as David had. I still have my underlined copy. It gives a good feel for the Gardena cardroom milieu of those days. A couple years ago I quoted, on RGP I think, perhaps here, something Mike Caro said in the book and Mike emailed me saying he didn't remember having said it. I cited the Hayano book and Mike replied that if it was in the book he indeed must have said it. (FWIW, Caro was extraordinarily gentlemanly and well-spoken in his correspondence with me.)

[Dead]

Interesting.

Yes I remember reading the parts about "Crazy" Mike Caro and all of his psychological techniques that he applied at Gardena.

As an experienced poker player, Andy, do you agree with David's belief that going broke is an eventuality for poker players, and that it will happen more than once, usually? This, to me, would be true of losing players, but for winning players with an adequate bankroll(300 BB+), it seems that risk of ruin would be quite low, assuming that you nurture your bankroll and don't move up too fast and/or until you are ready.

[stigmata]

Theres a copy up for grabs here (http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=202053024), but $180 is a bit steep for me.

[Derek in NYC]

I am embarrased to admit that I just paid $90 for a used paperback copy of the book. It should arrive in a few weeks.

[Dead]

Yeah, I am glad that my school library has it. They bought it back when it came out in 1982, obviously. No one had checked it out in a year until I checked it out last week. I am going to offer to buy it from them next time they sell their old books, I think.

[andyfox]

I assume that many players have lost their bankroll more than once in their lifetime. While David was talking about limit poker in 1982 (and in Gardena, at that time, they played only draw and lowball, no stud or hold 'em), I think lots of players will now go broke with the advent of no limit as a popular form of poker.

There are always a lot of people playing on the edge, either with money they really shouldn't be gambling, or in games where they are almost guaranteed to lose. So there's a certain group of player for whom, yes, I would agree, going broke is an eventuality.

[BarronVangorToth]

[ QUOTE ]
I am embarrased to admit that I just paid $90 for a used paperback copy of the book. It should arrive in a few weeks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't feel bad -- if the book is in "like new" (or close to it -- near mint, whatever) condition, that's not a bad price. It's impossible to find and I actually know people who've spent $100+ on it. That's what happens when books go out of print.... With poker where it is today, smart publishers would be bringing back quality books like this (heck, 2+2 might be able to pick up reprint rights for a song and make a pimpin' 2nd edition with updated materials).

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com (http://www.BarronVangorToth.com)

[stigmata]

Aren't these used-book-pedlers just being really canny here? E.g. Poker players = Poker Library = Poker bankroll.

Apparantly, we are the "fish" of the used books world!

[Jesse Richman]

If people are interested, I got my copy about 3 years ago at the Gamblers Book Store, used, for around 20 bucks. No idea if they have more copies kicking around.

I'm no expert at all, but I was an anthropology major in college, and while I enjoyed the book as a poker player, I thought from an anthropological perspective that the book was awfully thin in its analysis. If Hayano ultimately chose poker over anthropology (as is implied above), he made the right choice! Still, it's worth reading if you can find it.

[npc]

[ QUOTE ]

As an experienced poker player, Andy, do you agree with David's belief that going broke is an eventuality for poker players, and that it will happen more than once, usually? This, to me, would be true of losing players, but for winning players with an adequate bankroll(300 BB+), it seems that risk of ruin would be quite low, assuming that you nurture your bankroll and don't move up too fast and/or until you are ready.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think what you say is true, but also note that math on bankroll requirements wasn't widely known at this time. IIRC, Mason put the 300BB number (which I'm guessing is a bit high for games with only two betting rounds, although I don't have data to back that up) in GTaOT in 1987. It's possible that it was published in a magazine years before, but my guess is that most poker players, even winning ones, weren't doing this sort of math back then.

Remember the old school motto (I think voiced by Slim), "There's no shame in going broke, just in staying broke". Mathematical poker players, starting to emerge in the 70s and 80s, were the first generation of poker players to believe that this motto is untrue. It wouldn't surprise me to find that what Hayano was saying in 1982 was entirely true at that time.