QQ, preflop aggressor, flop overcard [Archive]

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bozlax

02-09-2005, 12:55 PM

This was my first hand at this table, so no reads at all. WWhat to do? I feel like I should be aggro, but am worried aabout that K.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $0.5.
1 fold, Villan calls, MP1 (poster) checks, 4 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, Villan 3-bets, MP1 folds, SB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Villan bets, Hero ?

vulturesrow

02-09-2005, 01:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This was my first hand at this table, so no reads at all. WWhat to do? I feel like I should be aggro, but am worried aabout that K.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $0.5.
1 fold, Villan calls, MP1 (poster) checks, 4 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, Villan 3-bets, MP1 folds, SB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Villan bets, Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Easy raise in my book. The PF limp-reraise is standard party idiocy. I have seen this play with every conceivable hand. If he likes his hand enough to reraise you, then you may have to slow down on the turn UI.

PS you shouldve capped PF.

bozlax

02-09-2005, 01:01 PM

Once he let it check through on the turn, I knew I was ok. Villan has later shown himself to be 75/13/.5 (wish I knew that earlier). (Dammit: even as I'm writing this, he just beat me with 54 from EP to get a straight on the river. AAAAAGH! T2s from EP the NEXT hand to pull a house on the river!)

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $0.5.
1 fold, UTG+1 :#A500AF(Villan)/ calls, MP1 (poster) checks, 4 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG+1 :#A500AF(Villan)/ 3-bets, MP1 folds, SB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Villan bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Villan checks.

River: (5 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Villan calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB

GrunchCan

02-09-2005, 01:03 PM

Cap PF.
Lead the flop. If you get raised, call down UI.

VTDuffman

02-09-2005, 01:03 PM

At this point, Villan could have anything. Don't want to give him KK or AK just yet. Why did you check? An overcard on the flop should not be enough to check, even to a pf re-raise, IMHO.

I don't know anything, I think I bet this flop, 3-bet a raise, call a cap, and go into call-down mode if I don't improve on the turn.

Edit: Oh yeah, cap this pre-flop.

OrianasDaad

02-09-2005, 01:03 PM

Without any reads I probably do one of two things:
1- raise.
1A - Call down if 3-bet.
2A - Lead out each street if he calls, call down if he raises turn or river.
2- go into weak/tight mode and call down.

Why are you sitting at a table with no reads? Observe!

OrianasDaad

02-09-2005, 01:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Without any reads I probably do one of two things:
1- raise.
1A - Call down if 3-bet.
2A - Lead out each street if he calls, call down if he raises turn or river.
2- go into weak/tight mode and call down.

Why are you sitting at a table with no reads? Observe!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ack. Missed the limp-reraise. I cap this flop and lead out on the turn every time against party people just about every time. I've seen Axs more often than a hand like AK, KK or AA put together from people who do this.

davelin

02-09-2005, 01:43 PM

Lead the flop. When you check, Villain's bet means pretty much anything. Although does anyone like a check/call, check/call, bet/fold line here?

jaxUp

02-09-2005, 01:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Lead the flop. When you check, Villain's bet means pretty much anything. Although does anyone like a check/call, check/call, bet/fold line here?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an interesting line. I'm curious to see why people would/wouldn't favour it. please include reasons with answers

hate

02-09-2005, 01:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]

This is an interesting line. I'm curious to see why people would/wouldn't favour it. please include reasons with answers

[/ QUOTE ]

I personally don't like this line because it doesn't allow me to dump, because any passive player betting now from my check doesn't mean anything, but if he raises on the flop, I get out then and save myself 2BB. Now you've just got random betting that could be a bluff or a lower pair, or you could be beat and you're forced to go a lot further with it.

GrunchCan

02-09-2005, 01:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Lead the flop. When you check, Villain's bet means pretty much anything. Although does anyone like a check/call, check/call, bet/fold line here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd replace bet/fold with bet/call. This line is appropriate when you are far ahead or far behind but your'e not sure which. It maximizes winnings when ahead and minimizes losses when behind.

It's probably applicable in this case, at least to a degree. But the PF LRR is something I'm very suspicious of, and it makes me want to apply pressure to the villan to see if he falls apart.

meep_42

02-09-2005, 03:22 PM

Cap PF.
Lead the flop, call down if raised.
Bet a non-A or A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif turn (if called on the flop), call a raise.
Bet the river if the board doesn't get scary.

-d

meep_42

02-09-2005, 03:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Lead the flop. When you check, Villain's bet means pretty much anything. Although does anyone like a check/call, check/call, bet/fold line here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Way ahead or way behind, exactly what I detailed. But, i'm not folding to a river raise on most boards. If the board is scary, i'll check to induce a bluff and call, but I want to show down with QQ.

-d