Preflop checkup 1 -Raising a limper outside the blinds

[Trix]

Hi, gonna make some posts about preflop play for a while.

I´ve gone from a vpip of around 15 to around 25, so I need to check up on some stuff.

Assume a 10/20 party game for all posts.

1) UTG limps, you are next (MP 6-handed).

Here I raise something like: 77 AT KJ A8s KTs QJs, is that about right ? I dont overlimp at all from this position unless the game is very loose and passive in which case I´ll overlimp 77 and lower pairs, A8s and lower suited Aces, K9s maybe, QTs, JTs and such.



2) UTG or MP limps (Dont think it matters much as the limpers usually are bad players who dont care much about position), you are in CO.

Here I will raise something like:
55 A9 KT Axs K9s QTs JTs, I think this maybe be too loose-aggro though..



3) Button against one limper this time:

44 A8 KT QT Axs K8s QTs T9s

Again, I think I may be too loose in this spot.

I sometimes overlimp on the button with hands like 98s, Q9s, JT and such, when I dont think it´s too likely to get heads up if I raise, is that standard ?

I dont like overlimping Axs as getting heads up or 3way will improve your chances alot with this hand.



4) After two limpers it seems like you have to tighen up on your raises as the chance of winning unimproved goes way down.

So I raise something like: 88 AJ KQ KTs QJs

In the CO I fold QJ and KT, limp KJ and AT, limp 98s

On the button I limp QT and better, 87s, maybe 76s.

I play any pair, any suited ace in both spots.

I´m pretty unsure about how suited aces plays best too, I usually limp them after two limpers, but maybe raising is better ? I probably raise A8s, limp lower right now.



Not sure if this got too long, so if you prefer only talking about one situation at the time, then tell and I´ll seperate the stuff next time.

Any thoughts, comments, questions are appreciated.

[Alobar]

1) we have pretty much the exact same standards here

2) same as you except I'll raise down to A7o here, but I over limp with JTs and QTs

3) I chuck 44, I raise down to A7o, I overlimp QT JT T9s (but I am actually showing a loss with this hand, so maybe I should see why)

4) Im the same, except I still raise KJo and ATo, I figure a better hand would have raised, so its for value and id rather have it 3 handed than 5. I limp down to like K4s, as well as any Axs.

I raise A8s and better and limp lower. The only value I see to raising lower is to maybe buy yourself a free card on the flop. But I'd rather just limp and hopefully get it more multiway.

[Trix]

2) same as you except I'll raise down to A7o here, but I over limp with JTs and QTs

I dont like overlimping in this spot as it pretty much gives the hand away as I´m not gonne overlimp much else than these two if I will and I can often pick up the pot 2-3 way if I raise preflop on a A/K/Q board.

A7o is a very clear fold for me, but I might overvalue suited connected stuff compared to Ax.
I fold A8o too here and it don´t feel that close to me, so one of us got this one wrong.

3) I chuck 44, I raise down to A7o, I overlimp QT JT T9s (but I am actually showing a loss with this hand, so maybe I should see why)

A7o I think I have done a couple of times when I thought the blinds where likely to fold. But I fold it much more than I play.

I think you may be right about the 44 though.

I´m not sure about QT, JT, T9s, 98s either, T9o seems like a clear fold, 98s looks close to me.

4) Im the same, except I still raise KJo and ATo, I figure a better hand would have raised, so its for value and id rather have it 3 handed than 5. I limp down to like K4s, as well as any Axs.

I used to raise AT/KJ, not I limp them for the same argument as limping KQ/AJ after multiple limpers in a full game, is the value from the raise to great to pass on ?

K4s seems kinda crappy to me here, K8s/K7s I think are close, so either of us is off on this one.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
2) same as you except I'll raise down to A7o here, but I over limp with JTs and QTs

I dont like overlimping in this spot as it pretty much gives the hand away as I´m not gonne overlimp much else than these two if I will and I can often pick up the pot 2-3 way if I raise preflop on a A/K/Q board.

A7o is a very clear fold for me, but I might overvalue suited connected stuff compared to Ax.
I fold A8o too here and it don´t feel that close to me, so one of us got this one wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think i raise A7o for the same reason you are raising QTs JTs, its easy to pick up the pot when the flop comes with some broadway or high card+rags

I guess im just not that confident with QTs or JTs, I like to hope for it multiway with these 2 hands rather than HU. I dont think it gives my hand away tho by over limping, I never see the same faces enough at the table that its going to be noticble.

[ QUOTE ]
3) I chuck 44, I raise down to A7o, I overlimp QT JT T9s (but I am actually showing a loss with this hand, so maybe I should see why)

A7o I think I have done a couple of times when I thought the blinds where likely to fold. But I fold it much more than I play.

I think you may be right about the 44 though.

I´m not sure about QT, JT, T9s, 98s either, T9o seems like a clear fold, 98s looks close to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think not raising A7o on the button against a limper is giving up on some easy EV. I dont like over limping 98s, for the same reason T9o is an easy fold. Not enough high card strength and with only 1 limper its just not going to be multiway enough for the suited connectedness of it to make up that difference.

[ QUOTE ]
4) Im the same, except I still raise KJo and ATo, I figure a better hand would have raised, so its for value and id rather have it 3 handed than 5. I limp down to like K4s, as well as any Axs.

I used to raise AT/KJ, not I limp them for the same argument as limping KQ/AJ after multiple limpers in a full game, is the value from the raise to great to pass on ?

K4s seems kinda crappy to me here, K8s/K7s I think are close, so either of us is off on this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play K4s for the same reasons I play K7s, I dont think there is much difference between the 2. I'm looking for a good flop. flush draw, pair with an overcard/backdoor. I've got the best possible position and I can get away from the hand if I dont flop what I want.

[pfkaok]

I have pretty close standards on most of the raising with you guys... i'm with alobar that i like to raise with ATo or KJo after limpers b/c in position i feel like it has to be +EV to get more in the pot preflop.

[ QUOTE ]
I play K4s for the same reasons I play K7s, I dont think there is much difference between the 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like having a 7 or 8 quite a bit more than a 4, since i feel better about being more aggressive on the flop with middle pair + over, or plus some other weak draw, rather than bottom pair.

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]
2) same as you except I'll raise down to A7o here, but I over limp with JTs and QTs

[/ QUOTE ]

I also like raising JTs and QTs here, but A7o i only like raising if the limper is pretty weak.

[ QUOTE ]
3) I chuck 44,

[/ QUOTE ]

And I like to dump 44 here as well most of the time... feels like it only causes trouble spots after flop unless you hit set. probably very margainal +EV if you can always play it well.

[NLSoldier]

I am a little more lag than you I think but in general I think your standars look pretty good. I think the biggest difference is that I hardly change my raising requirements at all after one limper and pretty much raise with anything that I would open raise with. My reason being that my raise will get slightly more respect than an open raise (which tend to get 0 respect) and the limper adds more money to the pot for the times that the flop goes check-bet-fold.

Is this bad thinking on my part?