AA Question

[Mudge]

Sorry if this has been asked before.
How do you bet if dealt a pair of Aces?
If I go all in I dont feel I have got the most out of the hand if everyone folds, but as I have just lost to a set up Queens (villian dealt KQ) how hard do you push pre flop?

Thanks in advance.

[shoeman]

I think this short answer to this is that it depends on the situation. What buy-in you are playing, what position you are in, what the blind level is, how agressive is your table, how many are left at the table. These are all factors in deciding how to play AA. Are you looking for advice on a particular situation or AA play in general?

[Mudge]

More advice in general. The last instance was early in a $10 SNG. Blinds were 25/50. All in would have made me $75, which does not seem much for Aces. As it was I lost alot more when the queens came out.

[shoeman]

I'm not the most experienced player but I have been playing $10 SNGs for a while and I'll give you some advice in general.

First few blind levels

Raise in Early position to 4xBB plus limpers. If anybody re-raises, push all-in.
Late Position. Raise 4xBB plus limpers if no raises. If there is a raise in front of you, re-raise to about the size of the pot or raise all-in if more than 1 person calls or the raise if fairly big. No need to get fancy at the $10 SNGs.
If the flop is non-connected, rainbow, than a check raise all-in is OK. Otherwise I suggest a strong bet or all-in on the flop. If you flop another A, than a slowplay is OK. Just be careful.

50/100 Blind level and UP

Make sure you get another stack to commit chips. Min-raise in early position to get callers. Re-raise all-in to any raise. Push all-in right away if you are short stacked.

There are really only 2 times I won't raise with AA at a $10 sng. Heads up and in the small blind when everybody folds.

I realize that you don't want to just win the blinds at 25/50 with AA. But you really need to raise to limit the field. Immediately raising all-in as you said probably isn't the right answer but a raise to 150-250 is what I would have done. If the guy still calls with KQ and wins, thats just the way it goes sometimes.

Keep in mind that this is just general information and a whole book could be written on how to play AA. I'd be interested to see what others opinions are?

[KenProspero]

Mudge, I'm mostly playing low level games -- here's what I do.

First, as a general rule, if I raise pre-flop (no callers) I'll make the bet 3x the big blind. Although I vary a little (sometimes a chip more, someties a chip less), I don't really vary depending on whether I have a marginal raise or a powerhouse. My reason for this is I don't want people to be able to read me. If people fold to my standard bet, so be it. I take a lot of pots this way, and let's face it, you're not going to get a monster pot unless one or more players have a hand anyway.

If there are callers, I'll raise a bit more. Basically, with 4 or 5 callers, I'm not at all unhappy to take the pot down right there. Especially if I think it highly likely tht I have the best hand, I'm hoping to change the pot odds so that anyone who calls is making a statistical mistake (See Fundamental Theory of Poker). Either the other players are going to pay to see their cards or I'll take the pot right there.

That being said, it's highly situational. For example, if I'm short-stacked, I'll probably bet all-in with any decent hand. There have been times when I've checked AA (pre-flop, flop and turn) because of a read I thought I had on a player, and the specific cards that hit the board.

To summarize, I think you have to figure out what betting pattern you want to use, and build it into your game. But remember, there are much worse things than taking down a pot immediately.

[ColdestCall]

There is no simple answer to your question, because, as has already been noted, so much depends on the situation, and you can't play them the same every time. That being said...

I would recommend you read the section in Super System pertaining to the play of AA and KK in no-limit. The advice is intended for a cash game, but a lot of it is applicable to tournaments, and it will give you a good conceptual framework.

Some other thoughts: with AA you want to do whatever will get the most money in the pot pre-flop, preferably against a small number of opponents. The situation you are aiming for is heads-up all-in. The way to do this will vary widely. If you are in EP, and there is an agressive raiser or two behind you, you may want to just call and hope you get raised so you can come back over the top. If your table is real tight or passive, you HAVE to raise these EP, IMO, because the last thing you want is to limp and have six people take the flop with you. I will usually make a standard 3BB raise from EP, although sometimes I'll make it a little bigger, like 4 or 5 BB, because a lot of people read this for a raise from a semi-strong hand that doesn't really want a flop and might fold if someone plays back (a hand like, say, 7,7, or J-As), and I might trap someone that way. In middle or late position I'll raise, and I'll add a BB to my 3BB raise for every limper. Folded to me in LP I'll raise 3 or 4 BB. If it's raised to me, I'll move in if I think I'll get a call, or put in about half my stack otherwise (the other half is going in on the flop, regardless of what comes, if I'm heads up).

On the flop: if you've gotten half your stack in pre-flop, and you are heads up, the rest goes in on the flop. Don't even think about it. If you're beat, you're beat. The situation is very different, however if you've only got a little bit in the pot, say 3BB, and you have a couple of opponents, or, even worse, you limped in EP looking for a raise, didnt get one, and have only 1 BB in the pot against a bunch of limpers. Do NOT get broke in this situation. I mean, if the flop is 2-5-9 rainbow or the like, go ahead and bet the pot, but be aware that if someone moves in on you the only hand you are likely to beat is an overpair, or top pair top kicker. It's tough to get away from AA there though, and often you end up paying off trips or random two pair, but you CAN sometimes save your stack, especially if the all-in is a check raise from the BB, or some other move that someone isn't going to make without a monster. If you've got nothing, or not too much in the pot, be prepared to chuck AA if someone makes a huge move on it (they also have nothing in the pot, and aren't likely to go out of their way to protect it). Remember also that if the flop comes three to a high straight, or three to a flush, or cards like QQK, or 10JJ, and you've got a couple of customers, you have a hand that is REAL easy to get broke with. Don't.

Hope this helps a bit.

[AtticusFinch]

Great post CC. The best concise description I've read in a while.

[GauchoFish]

Wonderful post. Thanks.

I'd like to present a hand i played yesterday and see what you think of this play:


30+3 SNG Party. 8 Handed, blinds 15-30 i have 1100 in chips.


I get rockets UTG and limp hoping to re-raise. Two come in behind me and the blinds. No raise. DOH!

Flop 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Blinds check to me, I bet 50

Get one caller behind and the SB makes it 150 to go. I muck and guy behind mucks. SB takes down the pot.



He may have had a flush draw, A4 or some pair bigger than fours, but i didn't want to play this pot, this moment and risk my perfectly sized stack going into the later stages.

I went on to win this tourney making me quite satisfied with the laydown. But i'm thinkin it may have been a little TOO tight, possibly i should have 3 bet or called to see what he did on the turn.


Any thoughts?

Thanks


WD

[ColdestCall]

I dont think there is anything wrong with this fold, though it's a real tough one to make and I probably wouldn't do it ALL the time (because of reads, etc.) This hand illustrates a number of interesting things:

1. The importance of raising with AA in EP unless you think someone is going to raise your limp at least half the time, and probably more like 70%.

2. (Related) How difficult a position you can find yourself in when a bunch of people take the flop with what could be random cards.

3. The importance of finding out where you are at in a hurry when you do take a flop with a bunch of people. By this I mean that your flop bet was too small. There is 150 in the pot and you bet 50, which prices in the flush draw, and is also small enough that it might encourage someone to make a play on you. Now, I don't really think the SB is making a check/raise bluff here, which is why I don't mind your fold (plus the guy calling behind you could have anything - I've been in a similar situation more than once, gotten them all-in, and was shown not one, but two sets of trips at showtime. How ya doin?) However, if I were the SB I would at least consider a check raise bluff if I thought you were tight. Anyway, bet the pot (150), and a flush draw should fold (although you don't mind a call), and, if SB comes over the top of 150, you can be pretty sure he's there so you don't have to feel even a little bad about throwing your hand away. Hopefully, at least, the 150 bet will buy you position for the turn.

4. How a painful laydown of AA that avoids risking getting broke with it early can turn into a tourney victory (even though you still question yourself the next day for having laid down AA, you do it $117 richer.)

[valenzuela]

Aces main strentgh are someone hitting top pair..or..hitting a set and someone else hitting an under set( the time this happened to me it was limit)...im a fan of raising rockets to 20% of my stack to counter those pesky small pairs. I mean if u get a flop of KT6 and someone goes all-in, its either a set or top pair..its easier to call with 3-2 pot odds.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

What position?
How many people have already entered the pot?
Has the pot been raised/reraised?
How aggressive are the other players who have yet to act/are already in the pot?
How big are the blinds vs. stack size?
What's your stack size as compared to the rest of the field?
What does the table think of you?

Until you answer those questions, it's hard to recommend how to play any hand.