15/30 JJ, Should I take this to the river, or muck it on the flop?

[whitelime]

I open with JJ from the CO. Superfish calls from button. Tight player (17/5) calls from the BB. Flop comes K96 rainbow. I bet, button mucks, BB raises, I fold. Should I 3-bet this or take it to a showdown?

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
I open with JJ from the CO. Superfish calls from button. Tight player (17/5) calls from the BB. Flop comes K96 rainbow. I bet, button mucks, BB raises, I fold. Should I 3-bet this or take it to a showdown?

[/ QUOTE ]

are you and pokerjo22 somehow psychically linked?

JJ is not a hand you take to the river in situations in which you showed strength preflop and a reasonable player is playing back at you on an A or K high flop.

-Barron

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I open with JJ from the CO. Superfish calls from button. Tight player (17/5) calls from the BB. Flop comes K96 rainbow. I bet, button mucks, BB raises, I fold. Should I 3-bet this or take it to a showdown?

[/ QUOTE ]

are you and pokerjo22 somehow psychically linked?

JJ is not a hand you take to the river in situations in which you showed strength preflop and a reasonable player is playing back at you on an A or K high flop.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Oooh I disagree. I'm not saying this is necessarily a calldown, but at least it's marginally close, which pokerjo's hand wasn't. This is a blind stealing situation and the pot is no longer protected once the Button folds.

I have a pretty good idea of the sorts of hands that a 33/10 player is going to raise with UTG and then cap a 3-bet against. I don't have all that good an idea for how often a tightish preflop player is going to take a shot at me out of the blinds with like a pair of nines. To use pokertracker lingo, there are a lot of 17/5/0.8s in this game but there are also a lot of 17/5/2.1s. Against the later type I think I probably call down.

[bicyclekick]

well put nate. I would look at the guy's aggression, but if it's anything reasonable (like 1.5 or higher) i'm calling down.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
well put nate. I would look at the guy's aggression, but if it's anything reasonable (like 1.5 or higher) i'm calling down.

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oh wow...im getting old at the ripe old age of 24...didn't see it was an open raise or it was in the CO...

clearly a lot more comes into play...thanks nate.

-Barron

[bicyclekick]

I also wanna say that depending on feeling i may call down vs less aggressive players, really depends I guess.

[whitelime]

Funny because he was 17/5/1.5

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Funny because he was 17/5/1.5

[/ QUOTE ]

basically, those players have an idea about the game and would c'r here without even 99...as in they dont necesarily need top pair here...

they know you will raise with AQ AJ blah blah etc...any pair is a c'r candidate with a player that finds a favorable flop and a tight decent player in the CO.

-Barron

[whitelime]

So do you just check-call the rest of the way or 3-bet and lead the turn?

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
So do you just check-call the rest of the way or 3-bet and lead the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

call him down. This is where typically you're way way ahead or way behind. The only hand this line is bad against is AQ and he doesn't likely have that. You don't want him to fold a hand you beat. Bet the river if he checks it, though.

[1800GAMBLER]

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So do you just check-call the rest of the way or 3-bet and lead the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

If i'm carrying on with the hand i'm calling the flop and raising the turn to take a free showdown.

[1800GAMBLER]

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You don't want him to fold a hand you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you 3 bet the flop you def want him to fold a hand you bet.

If you raise the turn for the free showdown you def. want him to fold a hand you beat.

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The only hand this line is bad against is AQ and he doesn't likely have that.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is it bad against AQ (6 outs) yet not bad against A9 (5 outs)?

[AviD]

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To use pokertracker lingo, there are a lot of 17/5/0.8s in this game but there are also a lot of 17/5/2.1s. Against the later type I think I probably call down.


[/ QUOTE ]

Very important, and well said Nate.