I am trying to decide whether to move from 3-6 to 5-10 sh. Any help?

[Hulk Hogan]

I looked through the search as much as I could and I really couldn't find an answer to my question. I am not sure if I am missing out on significant money by not playing the 5-10. Does anyone who go from the 3-6 to the 5-10 short go back? Is it pretty much always a successful move, once one gets used to the swings? Do good players really ever stay at the 3-6, or do they always work toward the 5-10?

I'm beating the 3-6 pretty badly right now, and I have pretty good SH skills, but I am frankly pretty nervous about any potential move. Can anyone provide some advice?

Thank you and sorry if you hate this sort of post.

[EvanJC]

if you've never played six max play 10 or 20k 1/2 hands first, but yeah, if you have the bankroll for it, 5/10 parth sh is the most profitable game going.

[sublime]

I'm beating the 3-6 pretty badly right now, and I have pretty good SH skills, but I am frankly pretty nervous about any potential move. Can anyone provide some advice?

i played 5/10 for a brief amount of time. the aggression will go up immediatly, but if you want to play in the most profitable games around you will have to get used to that at some point.

[Hulk Hogan]

So the 5-10 is the most profitable game on Party?

Sigh.

I guess I am going to have to suck it up and try.

[Michael Davis]

Make sure you are comfortably bankrolled or if taking a shot move back if you lose 100 bb.

-Michael

[Hulk Hogan]

Thanks. I have about 10k from 3-6, so my BR is fine. I just need to be able to handle the swings. Are they really bad at this level?

[Michael Davis]

I have been taking a lot of time off but when I was playing 6+ tables 40-50 hours a week it was a near guarantee that I would have close to a 100 bb losing streak somewhere in there.

-Michael

[Scotch78]

[ QUOTE ]
I just need to be able to handle the swings. Are they really bad at this level?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're only used to full ring, then yes, expect an ulcer. The official HUSH standard is that you need a 300 BB downswing before anyone will listen to your sob story.

Scott

[sublime]

Are they really bad at this level?

i usually have my GF kick me in the balls before a session to prepare me for them

[Hulk Hogan]

[ QUOTE ]
I have been taking a lot of time off but when I was playing 6+ tables 40-50 hours a week it was a near guarantee that I would have close to a 100 bb losing streak somewhere in there.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

Ooooookay.

I now have to re-evaluate this.

My thing on the 3-6 is that I really don't go on losing streaks very often at all (I have played almost 120k hands at that level). For me losing even 100BB is a *massive* losing streak that has only happened a couple of times. And I have to say, it kind of pisses me off when it happens. Kind of a lot.

So perhaps the 5-10 sh is not for me. A 300 downswing would pretty much make me insane, I think. Is the 5-10 really profitable enough to be worth the aggravation? Right now I make about 4k per month at 3-6, and I play pretty casually (I have a day job). Do the regular 5-10 players make a lot more than that? Yes I know it depends on hours put in and all that, but I'm trying to get a feel for what the general results might be for a good player and whether it is worth it to me to invest the time into datamining and getting an ulcer.

I understand I am asking some somewhat vague questions here, but for me "taking a shot" is not really ideal. I scout a game for at least 2 weeks of hardcore datamining before I even attempt it, and that's 2 weeks I could be getting more 3-6 data. Also, I'd sort of like to decide on where I am going to play and play there instead of just jumping back if things don't go well initially.

Thanks to all who have provided some guidance. I really appreciate it.

[Michael Davis]

[ QUOTE ]
Is the 5-10 really profitable enough to be worth the aggravation?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but you have to be psychologically prepared to deal with it. It gets insanely frustrating. If you are not prepared to deal with it, that's fine, know thyself! But you will absolutely experience a 100 bb downstreak here in quick order if you put in legitimate hours. Playing mad multitables I think I've dropped about 60 in ten minutes or so.

-Michael

[kidcolin]

I made the jump from 2/4 to 5/10 SH after scouting the games and seeing some absurd play. My bankroll was initially a bit short of the ideal (only 250 BB), but so far I've made a lot more playing 5/10. I came into it with the idea that I'd drop down the moment i felt either outclassed or was being affected to much by the swings. I've yet to suffer the huge swing yet, so maybe it's just a matter of time before I drop back down. I really don't think you have a lot to lose to give it a shot, but if you're uncomfortable with the idea, by all means stay at 3/6.

[7ontheline]

Feel free to try if you're bankrolled and think your game is ready. Obviously, the higher limits you play the more potential earnings (and losses) so if you want to move beyond your current level you have to move up sometime. If you're comfortable where you're at and not motivated to move up, why would you?

I'm taking my 3rd shot at 5/10 sh. My first went down in flames with a 100 BB loss right off the bat. . .back to 3/6 for me! My second ended when I needed to tap into my bankroll for outside expenses - I was playing breakeven but didn't have the roll to ride out the swings. Again, back to 3/6. Finally it looks like I'm (hopefully) here to stay. +100 BB so far and feeling comfortable with the aggression. The beats can be soul-crushing though - get rivered a couple of times and that's $200-300 bucks in an instant - a bit different than 3/6, and a little hard to take initially. There are SO many bad players though that I can't stay away.

[WarBus]

My last 2 days.
Monday night big hands held up and draws hit. +185 BBs
Tuesday I should have had a life jacket, since I kept drowning on the river. -78 BBs
Last month my first week was -210 BBs.
By the end of the month I still averaged my normal BB/100.
Two or three -100 BB swings per month seem to be the norm for me.
Sometimes the poker gods make sure I can't beat my dog at poker.

It is a great level to play if you can handle:
-20 BBs in ten minutes on 1 table.
+100BB swings and don't start playing stupid because you think your are a god.
-100BB swings and don't start playing stupid because you need to get even.
multiple bad beats in a matter of minutes.

If you haven't played short handed in a while, 20,000 hands of 1-2 is definitely a good idea.

[Grisgra]

I highly recommend the Paradise 1/2 5-max. Supersoft (I would NOT be surprised if people grinding it out there could make 8+BB/100 if they didn't move up, but of course they do/should) and usually extremely passive. A great place to learn what kind of hands take down pots.

[Scotch78]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand I am asking some somewhat vague questions here, but for me "taking a shot" is not really ideal. I scout a game for at least 2 weeks of ######## datamining before I even attempt it, and that's 2 weeks I could be getting more 3-6 data.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about mining 5/10 with 2-3 skins and 3/6 with the other 3-4?

Scott

[Hulk Hogan]

I haven't figured out how to put that into PT yet. I could I suppose, but it would involve a whole new setup. I don't want to mix up data from different levels.

[billyjex]

Someone mentioned Paradise 1/2 -- the 3/6 game is also pretty good there.

I like the PokerRoom 3/6 game as well (5-max) which I play when bonus whoring. The BB swings will be just as bad but it will be less in monetary terms so maybe it will ease you into the variance.

[Scotch78]

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't figured out how to put that into PT yet. I could I suppose, but it would involve a whole new setup. I don't want to mix up data from different levels.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pretty easy actually. PM me sometime and I'll walk you through it.

Scott

[stigmata]

Hi


I moved up to 5t6m pretty recently, so here's my 10c worth.

I was at 3/6 for a little while - doing OK but nothing spectacular, but I just found it really dull. Took a shot at the 5t6m last december, and initially got my ass handed back to me on a plate.

I was still playing small-stakes style, and this was the problem. I read these forums, and worked out how to ramp up my aggression, esp. pre-flop. Search for some of the 6 max starting hand charts if you havent seen them yet. They definately made a difference. As has been said before, if you never limped at 5t6m, you wouldnt be going far wrong.

After reading this forum for a while, I took another shot at the beggining of this year and havent looked back. The benifits of moving to this game are huge:

Its more fun
Its more profitable
Your short handed/HU skills improve
Your whole game improves


The only downside is, of course, the swings. Having a 50 BB downswing is a daily norm. Yes, it can be frustrating, but you definatley get used to it. The downswing are horrendous, but hardly anyone ever mentions the fact that the upswings can be equally fantastic. Once you've logged enough hands and you are sure you are winner, the variance becomes much, much easier to deal with.

I would advise you to give a single table a go for a little while, see how you get on. Also, I'm not sure how useful the 1/2 games are for practising... they are just too loose passive and easily beatable IMHO.

Good luck.

[bunky9590]

In the last month and a half, Ive had 3 100BB downers and a 200BB downer seperate from those.

The swings are sick. The games are great. If you have an ounce of tilt in your body, dont play.

[kidcolin]

Stigmata makes a great point about the upswings. You'll definitely suffer some horrific beats and losses, but there are also nights where you just can't be stopped and shoot up a good 20 or 30 BB in a short while.

[wahooriver]

I assume your 3/6 is full ring.

I would not start playing short handed at the 5/10 level. Prior to moving up to Party 5/10 I played Party 1/2 6 max and Paradise 1/2 and 3/6 5 max.

The pace of the shorthanded game takes getting used to. You do need to loosen your starting requirements.

Reading players is very different in the shorthanded universe. I would play 20-30k hands at lower levels just to experience the types of plays and types of players.

When you get to 5/10 you have the opportunity to make big bucks. It is (as everyone has said) a rollercoaster.

I believe that you should start with 1 table, and really work on understanding your opponents. You need to at least play at level 2 if not level 3 - level 1 thinking will get you beat - Mastering the Three Levels of Poker (http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/showarticle.php?a_id=14530&m_id=65555&PHPSESSID=36 b6e1d34b9174031aceac3785f334d9)

Good luck!

[Hulk Hogan]

Thanks for all the replies.

Honestly it doesn't sound like I am good enough yet for this. Maybe I'll try a few tables here and there and see how it goes, but it sounds very difficult compared to comfy old 3-6!