Another set hand, did I learn from my mistakes?

[bunky9590]

Reads on players.

BB is horrible, just plain horrible. Loose donktastic, complete ATM machine.

UTG is just as bad as BB, hes the one who broke my AA with 25o and KK with 86o yesterday. He's on my buddy list, quite possibly one of the top 10 worst players on party.

MP , hes just bizzare. LAG, raises very light and plays nearly 60% of hands.

Okay here goes, compare thsi to my JJ set hand of a couple days ago.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Bunky is CO with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">Bunky 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, MP calls, Bunky calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16.40 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Bunky 3-bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

Turn: (14.20 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Bunky raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

River: (22.20 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Bunky bets</font>, BB calls, UTG folds, MP calls.

Final Pot: 25.20 BB

Any better?

[ggbman]

This is just my personal opinion, and i'm sure it won't be popular. I don't like 3 betting the flop. You are not getting any draw to fold, and you want Kx hanging around. There is merit to punishing hands like AQ, but i think you get a lot of hands that you are far ahead of to fold. I like raising a blank (non straight or flush card) on the turn, especially because then you can get three bet by worse hands (99, 2 pair, AK)and get more value. Just my apporach.

Gabe

[bunky9590]

hey gabe, read the description of these guys, they sucked really really bad.

[7ontheline]

I like how you played it. I think the alternate line proposed is a mistake on such a coordinated flop. There's 2 clubs and 3 big cards out there. I'd pump it while I was pretty sure I was ahead.

[bunky9590]

bump

[bunky9590]

MP had K /images/graemlins/club.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif

BB has made my official buddy list and showed K /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

My hand is most certainly good.

[sublime]

This is just my personal opinion, and i'm sure it won't be popular. I don't like 3 betting the flop

you have to 3-bet here. these guys are not folding, esp with the board looking like that.

[bunky9590]

[ QUOTE ]
you have to 3-bet here. these guys are not folding, esp with the board looking like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

This hand is nothing like the overpair hand from Ed's book. I have a set for chrissakes. That raise is for value and I have position!

[ggbman]

[ QUOTE ]
This is just my personal opinion, and i'm sure it won't be popular. I don't like 3 betting the flop

you have to 3-bet here. these guys are not folding, esp with the board looking like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason i don't love the three bet is because you give your strength and make less if a complete blank, like a red 2,3,4,5,6,8 hits. There are a lot of cards that are safe for you and will allow you to extract more value. This is BECAUSE your opponents are terrible. Good players can fold k5 on that turn after being raised, but i dont think you opponent would have. You really want to get at LEAST two big bets in on the turn, and screaming monster on the flop is not the way to do that.

[sublime]

This hand is nothing like the overpair hand from Ed's book. I have a set for chrissakes. That raise is for value and I have position!

are you lookign in the mirror with anthony robbins playing in the backround right now? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[bunky9590]

I used to think that way, see my bumped JJ post. I am quite sure if I played it fast, I would have gotten way more $$ in as the others suggested.

Oh, BTW, I don't need a monster to three bet there, but it helps. I would hammer some really strong draws there as well.

This hand with this cast of characters, called for fast play. I just learned not to slowplay sets in large multiway pots.

[sublime]

the bet came from your immediated right. if you wait until the turn to raise you will put the field in a precarious position.

[bunky9590]

[ QUOTE ]
are you lookign in the mirror with anthony robbins playing in the backround right now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thankfully , NO. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

I'm just a positive thinking and happy person by nature, but the 5-10 6 max is doing its best to suck it right out of me.

[MAxx]

i dont remember the jj hand, but i can picture how it went.

IMO.. Flop 3bet is mandatory. highly coordinated board. you almost certainly have the best hand and you must certainly raise for value, if not protection.

Now, I do not think we should assume that waiting to raise turn will get us a bigger pot. Often people will chill on turn anyway. Often we will sometimes be able to raise both. Some could make 2 pair on the turn for example. Especially in today's 5/10short fish envirionment, I have seen a growth in the "gaybetting" scene. I forgot which poster should be credited with this term. It would include a weak player leading the turn out of position when his draw improved to a better draw, or his draw improved to a draw with bottom or middle pair, or he is even stop-and-going an unimproved draw.

IMO it just doent make sense to slowdown on the flop. Good Hand Bunk.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
Especially in today's 5/10short fish envirionment, I have seen a growth in the "gaybetting" scene. I forgot which poster should be credited with this term. It would include a weak player leading the turn out of position when his draw improved to a better draw, or his draw improved to a draw with bottom or middle pair, or he is even stop-and-going an unimproved draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

That term is highly offensive, and yet I will begin using it almost immediately . . . you're right. I almost never trust them when they take over the lead on the turn -- usually means exactly what you say it means. Damn gaybetters . . .

[turnipmonster]

perfectly played. if the guy on my right leads the river again, I might go for the overcall. thoughts on that?

[MAxx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Especially in today's 5/10short fish envirionment, I have seen a growth in the "gaybetting" scene. I forgot which poster should be credited with this term. It would include a weak player leading the turn out of position when his draw improved to a better draw, or his draw improved to a draw with bottom or middle pair, or he is even stop-and-going an unimproved draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

That term is highly offensive, and yet I will begin using it almost immediately . . . you're right. I almost never trust them when they take over the lead on the turn -- usually means exactly what you say it means. Damn gaybetters . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

gay also means something like happy or full of joy. does this make the term less offensive? we can start calling it happy betting. no that sux. ok, i am taking requests for a more PC but almost as funny term for this trend.

Grisgra- you gotten your daily kick in balls yet? Well, what are you waiting for?

[bunky9590]

[ QUOTE ]
if the guy on my right leads the river again, I might go for the overcall. thoughts on that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Great point. I probably do, I am still behind QJ and if he stop and goes me on two consecutive streets I may very well go for the overcalls. Not so much in fear , but as to have the extra money from the callers who are hopelessly dead who will probably call 1 extra bet , but not two. Nice point my friend.