Guns, Germs and Steel

[natedogg]

Another title for Bush's proposed budget?

natedogg

[slickpoppa]

How I learned to stop worrying and love the deficit

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
Another title for Bush's proposed budget?


[/ QUOTE ]

Frugal, Responsible and Patriotic?

[HDPM]

If only it were that limited.

[zaxx19]

A successful election in the arab heartland, a stable Afghanistan, a budding peace process in Palestine, a rejuvenated if still sluggish economy, new ideas on broken entitlement programs, advancement of a black women and hispanic into top roles in the cabinet....

Obviously if this continues it will be catastrophic to the nation...errr the Democratic party.

[cardcounter0]

"A successful election in the arab heartland,"
Yes, there has only been about 40 people killed in suicide bombings since the election. woooohooooo!

"a stable Afghanistan,"
poppy crop coming in ...

"a budding peace process in Palestine,"
Hahahahahahaha

"a rejuvenated if still sluggish economy,"
the economy has been 'rejuvenated if still sluggish' for about 4 years now. Some day it will actually happen.

"new ideas on broken entitlement programs,"
sounded like old ideas to me

"advancement of a black women and hispanic into top roles in the cabinet...."
Hahahahaha, thanks for the pick me up.

http://www.bartcop.com/kkk_2.jpg

[zaxx19]

Ok, so basically your point is you can find kernels of negativity anywhere in the world...GOOD JOB convinces me that GWB is a total buffoon.




a) scores of people are being killed in random acts of violence instead of 10's of thousands in Saddam's programs of ethnic extermination, ill fated wars against his neighbors, and random rapes and murders perpetrated in fits of psycopathic rage-paranoia...

b) Afghanistan is better off by almost every measurement of human living standards, its women have been freed, ethnic friction has been suprisingly low,elections a success, and the future is very bright. Oh but they grow poppy in a poor country where it has been harvested for centuries....strike all that good stuff- GWB is a monkey ...

c) Well, time will tell though Id say the substantial and tangible steps taken by Abu Mazen to secure Gazas border is a legitimate reason for optimism. You skepticism here is understandable...

d) The economy is fine. Unemployment/wages are historically good. Equity markets are good. Home ownership is very high. The deficit is troubling...but then again it has been for decades now and the sky hasnt fallen yet.

e) Wow, hard to respond to stupidity that dips quite this low....

Sen Byrd (DEM. WV)- "We used to call them n*gg***, and we didnt like them much at all where I was from."

Jesse Jackson (former dem candidate for president and well known democratic activist)- "Everyone knows who runs NYC.....its Heimeytown"-paraphrased

I dont know if that clan member was a GOP member or Bush supporter ....we do know these two men are Democrats.

[Richard Tanner]

I tend to stay out of the fray in most of this, mainly because around here it's a good show just to watch. But I think I can clear up the "minorities in power" a little.
Neither party has done this. Yes Reps. has Condi, but condi is black only in skin color. She's culturally white (i.e. she isn't a facsimile of those she's supposed to represent). That's the reason that most people still view both parties as run by "whitey."

Cody

[zaxx19]

Congrats on your new "Race analyst of all 6 billion humans" job. Im glad you can differentiate who is black from who is only skin deep black...keep up the good work.

OTOH Alot of blacks I know look at someone like LIL John and think he isnt really black. These blacks happen to be from Africa..

[Felix_Nietsche]

"She's culturally white (i.e. she isn't a facsimile of those she's supposed to represent). That's the reason that most people still view both parties as run by "whitey."
********************************************
This is not what I call an enlightening post.....

[MMMMMM]

Well, Cody, this is interesting.

Please name a few examples of current persons in the public eye whom you admire and view as "culturally black" (preferably, persons who would conceivably be good in public office as well).

[adios]

and elaborate as much as time permits.

[Cyrus]

I agree with you that Condi Rice is culturally white -- even though that is a loaded term --- and I do not intend to waste time explaining why.

However, it would be a serious mistake not to acknowledge the changes in American culture and politics by the (literallyy casual) ascendance to important political positions of people from racial and ethnic minorities, such as blacks and hispanics.

This has been accomplished during Dubya's first term and gets more momentum now, in his second term, most prominently with a black woman getting a position so close in the line of succession for the Presidency, constitutionally. [The first black woman was Patricia Harris, but entered at only 13th in line when she became HUD Secretary, in Carter's administration.]

The whole American culture, as a direct result of the decades' old civil rights movement and the subsequent legislation of the 1960s and 60s, has shifted; the zeitgeit is now duly reflected.

It seems always best for people's well-being when revolutions happen casually, bloodlessly and without much fanfare. Take the racial wars in America (still very racist in many parts, though) or the Cold War itself -- and then witness how Rice gets appointed without so much as a pip from the White Citizens Councils or how the USSR imploded with less dust than the Sands!

This is, however, a false picture. We don't see blood and agony now because there was a tremendous amounf of blood and agony before. We should remember Ms Parks and the rest, because they were behind Dubya's Rice.

But we should acknowledge Dubya's part in it, too.

(Who said an idiot cannot move History forward? /images/graemlins/cool.gif)

[Felix_Nietsche]

I think he is saying when a black person wearing a dew-rag(or sideways baseball cap), exposed boxers, gold teeth,and jeans hanging around his knees; becomes elected to high office....then the USA will be an race enlightened country....

I'll let Bill Cosby handle this from here... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[HDPM]

so when Condi's father had to grab some guns and defend his family against a southern lynch mob was he more black or less black than Rosa Parks?

This kind of racial BS is so tiresome. Condi is an individual. She grew up with some hardships and problems because of her race that were worse than some other black people knew. Not as bad as others. But to say she is somehow less black because of her individual views is offensive and stupid. People have no obligation to think or act a certain way because of their skin color.

[Richard Tanner]

So you're saying that Condi is what you would consider the "average black women", or rather that most black women in America would say she represents them?

Cody

[Richard Tanner]

You know, I can't think of any, that's kinda the point. Minorities have to be run through such a normalizing process that it doens't seem as though they represent any part of the culture that they come from.
I suppose one exception might be Obama, from IL, but truthfully I don't know enough about him or his actions to say either way.

Cody

[zaxx19]

People have no obligation to think or act a certain way because of their skin color.

Apparently liberals do not subscribe to this type of thinking. Kind of ironic when you think about it.

The scary part is as far as I know the people on this board who are determining who is "culturally black: (whatever that is supposed to mean...) are non-blacks themselves.

Id like to ask which traits make you culturally black??

Who determines if you are culturally black??

If in fact there is something as being culturally black can white people be black?? Puerto Ricans?? Should appointments of these types of people be counted as moving black people forward in America??


So you're saying that Condi is what you would consider the "average black women", or rather that most black women in America would say she represents them?

P.S.

I wouldnt say Christine Brinkley is understood as an avg white women or that white women believe she represents them...SO WHAT SHE IS STILL WHITE.

[Richard Tanner]

Wow, that's a bit of a jump from my post. I was refering mainly to her policies. I believe in the 2000 election, Bush got 5% of the African American vote, I'm not sure what it was this time but I don't think I remember him getting a large amount. We could conclude therefor that most african americans, at least those that voted, do not agree with Republican policies. If this is true, then it's fair to say that Condi, while certainly a great politicain, isn't a real representative of african americans.

Cody

[Richard Tanner]

Ok, I now regret my choice of words, but not the sentiment behind them. So I ask again, do you consider Condi a representitive of the political beliefs of African Americans.

Cody

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I now regret my choice of words, but not the sentiment behind them. So I ask again, do you consider Condi a representitive of the political beliefs of African Americans.

Cody

[/ QUOTE ]

I seem to keep popping up in here every once in a while, but here's my answer to that...

Maybe Ms. Rice doesn't share the same political beliefs as many black people in the United States. She's got her particular ideology and she sticks to those beliefs. Fair enough. Meanwhile, clearly neither President Bush or Senator Kerry shares the same beliefs as all white people in this country? I don't think it really matters if she shares the same beliefs as a lot of other black people, she is who she is. Republican, Democrat, black, white, whatever.

If people really want true equality, which everybody goes on endlessly about, then it shouldn't matter if she appeals to all blacks. That's not her job. Her job is to be a good politician and true to her own ideologies. To that, I'd say she's done a fairly good job for herself.

[Richard Tanner]

"If people really want true equality, which everybody goes on endlessly about, then it shouldn't matter if she appeals to all blacks. That's not her job. Her job is to be a good politician and true to her own ideologies. To that, I'd say she's done a fairly good job for herself."

Agree 100%, but that wasn't what I was refering too. I was saying that I dislike the assertion that the Republicans are leading the way in minority politicians. Neither side is really accepting of minority point of views, although Bush tried with the "amnesty for illegal aliens thing". Condi is a great politicain, but to say that she's a significany minority appointment seems sorta fake to me. Although politics is just the art of making a ton a fake stuff palletable, so I suppose it's just more of the same.

Cody

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
I was saying that I dislike the assertion that the Republicans are leading the way in minority politicians.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you need to think the logic of this statement through a little bit more. Racial and ethnic discrimination exists irregardless of the political views of the people being disciminated against. Bush has shown that the color of a persons skin doesn't matter to him and in my mind that's how it should be. Appointing an Afro-American to be Secretary of State isn't some token appointment for crying out loud.

As far as blacks voting for Bush. He got more than 5% of the black vote and actually increased his total from the 2000 election. Britt Hume did an interview with Juan Williams (a journalist who happens to be black who I'd be will to bet didn't vote for Bush /images/graemlins/smile.gif) and Juan stated that in the battle ground states where Bush campaigned he made some significant increases in soliciting support from Black voters. Certain Bush stances on issues played very well with black voters. Williams stated that Condi Rice was eminently qualified as well as people like Andrew Young. My sense was that there are many blacks that don't vote Republican that take a lot of pride in seeing Condi Rice in the position that she's in and acknowledge Bush for making these appointments.

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
So you're saying that Condi is what you would consider the "average black women", or rather that most black women in America would say she represents them?

Cody

[/ QUOTE ]
Considering what she's done in her life, I wouldn't say she represented most women, let alone most women. She doesn't even represent most men. So I don't know what your point is. But I would hope that all women, especially afro-american women would try to acheive the type of success she has.
It's too bad she had to suffer the idiocy of a couple of hardline dems who are far inferior to her as far as being qualified for her current job.

[MMMMMM]

1. I think the terms "culturally black" or "culturally white" are, generally speaking, a largely useless and divisive load of crap.

2. I understand that you may not have meant it it the same sense that race demagogues mean it when they use the phrase.

3. I read that the Dem Party has recently been losing blacks, and black votes, to the Repub Party.

4. I think that linking political affiliation to "culturally black (or white)" is a bit too strong. If anything, "culturally black (or white)" should mean an identification and pathos with the history and culture of that race--not specifically an alignment with the majority political views of that race. Culture does not equal politics although there is some broad overlap.

5. The term "culturally white" has been abused by race demagogues, and some black kids have suffered as a result, due to peer pressure against studying hard and getting good grades, etc...because that is associated with being "culturally white". Funny how those who make the biggest issues out of race often end up doing more harm than good.

[Richard Tanner]

I agree, perhaps I got the wrong message accross (I knew I was screwed when Cyrus sorta agreed with me. J/K Cy /images/graemlins/grin.gif). I believe in what I'm trying to say, but I don't know that there is a way to convey said message without sounding racist. That said, I don't want anyone thinking that I don't like Condi or anything, but alas, I suppose what's done is done.

Cody

[Voltron87]

Jesus [censored] Christ their point is that Condi is a "tool of the Man", that is why people say she is not blacker than black or down with the hood.

[Il_Mostro]

For those who might be interested. Here's an interview with Jared Diamond, the author of Guns, germs and steel. He is talking about his new book "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed."
The interview starts about 8 mins into the broadcast, and I found it interesting

Interview (http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2005/01/20050104_b_main.asp)

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
I knew I was screwed when Cyrus sorta agreed with me.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I knew everything in my post would get ignored except for my agreement with the term "culturally white" as soon as I posted it.

I truly thought the other point about the seemingly quite shifts in paradigm was more important, but, what can you do.

[Richard Tanner]

Sweet Mary, It was a joke. Just a joke. That was why I included "J/K" after it with a little smilely face. I like the points in your post, infact I agree with it.
My joke however, focused on the fact that your name is something of a red flag to the more right leaning people on this board. THat's it, that's all.
To repeat, great post, just learn to laugh a little, I'm not going to attack you on sight like some others do, it's okay.

Cody

[tolbiny]

I think waht Richard Tanner is getting at is the stark differences between a woman like Condi and the average minority in america. Rice does not represent the average Black woman because of her education level and success in her pursuits. This is not Condi's "fault"- but to hold her up and to "look at the progress we are making, a black woman as secretary of state" is totally ignoring the fact that the average unemployment levels and incarceration levels of minorities are extremely high in this country, and their education levels are still very poor.

[Cyrus]

I got the joke, Tanner, no worries.

I only lamented that subsequently the focus was exclusively on it. (Once again, this "pinko liberal", yours truly, I mean, pointed out in this thread the quiet but momentous achievements of the Dubya administration, in promoting to high positions of power people from minorities without so much as a pip of protest from the old Right. This should've been news.)

Take care.

[Richard Tanner]

1) Please, call me Cody. I just use Richard because it's my given name. Cody is what I am called in real life.

2) Yes, oh my god, Yes. You got it. You sir are my new Hero.

Cody

[Richard Tanner]

No one on the right cares what you say from what I've seen (which is such a waste), just that it gives them fodder for an argument. No worries, I'm from the other axis (Libertarian), so we're cool.

Cody