odds question...

[Abu Turab]

I witnessed the following hand at PP on NL100.

Board is 3s4sQd. no pf raises and 5 players saw the flop.

Player 1: As7s
Player 2: AhQc

Player 1 checks, Player 2 overbets the pot on the flop, is called by Player1, others fold.
Rags hit turn and river with Player 2 leading both times and player 1 calling him down to lose a missed draw.

My question is this: Would it be correct with top pair,top kicker to give your opponent the drawing odds vs overbetting the flop to induce him to chase a flush draw? Or was it correct to overbet as done, inducing a -EV call by someone who's hand is a dog and hope that they call anyways.

[sin808]

I'm probably not anywhere near qualified enough to answer this, but I'll throw in my thoughts.

I would think that since poker is about profiting from your opponents mistake, it would make sense to allow him an opportunity to make one. Like calling a bet with his draw when he doesn't have odds to continue.

[binions]

[ QUOTE ]
I witnessed the following hand at PP on NL100.

Board is 3s4sQd. no pf raises and 5 players saw the flop.

Player 1: As7s
Player 2: AhQc

Player 1 checks, Player 2 overbets the pot on the flop, is called by Player1, others fold.
Rags hit turn and river with Player 2 leading both times and player 1 calling him down to lose a missed draw.

My question is this: Would it be correct with top pair,top kicker to give your opponent the drawing odds vs overbetting the flop to induce him to chase a flush draw? Or was it correct to overbet as done, inducing a -EV call by someone who's hand is a dog and hope that they call anyways.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it's not raised preflop, the A7s is not putting anyone on AQ. So, unless he puts someone on a set, he thinks he has 12 outs, not 9, because he thinks his Ace is live.

Unless short stacked, most players will call a pot bet on the flop with 12 outs due to the implied odds of catching.

In fact, betting the pot here with KQ and getting a call is not inducing that big a mistake from A7s. So, KQ would have to overbet the pot to induce a real mistake.

Of course, we know the Ace isn't live, so he only has 9 outs, and even calling a pot size bet is a mistake.

[K C]

The trick here is to get your opponent to put as much money in the pot as you can, and making sure you put him in a -EV situation while still keeping him in the hand.

As a general rule, you won't get called down by overbetting the pot in this situation, but if you think that the opponent will call with a lesser hand than yours, then of course it's a good move. In most circumstances you're going to want to bet less though, as long it would be a mistake for your opponent to call it given the drawing odds of the flush.

There's hardly any money in the pot right now and taking it down in this situation would be a -EV move in comparison to getting him to call a bet which gives you any kind of +EV on the call.

KC
kingcobrapoker.com

[TheHenchmen]

Simply put, no. You don't not want to give him the proper odds to draw at the flush. If he's getting the correct odds, then he is making the right play, and in poker, you benefit from your opponent's mistakes. Thus you have to give him the opportunity to make one. Don't sacrafice a chance to put them in the wrong just for the chance to win a pot, because if they're getting the correct odds to chase, they will take you in the long run. Get them to make mistakes, and buy plenty of black pens.... you'll need 'em.

[SeattleJake]

Yes, the way it's put, if you don't bet then you are giving them infinite odds on the free card. Even at limit games, you need to bet just to decrease his odds and making it more of a mistake.

Player2 did what they were supposed to do, and Player1 compounded the mistake on each round.