wrong to just call here?

[snapfc01]

my thinking here was i was semi low and wanted another call preflop then push post flop. ya there is hope of the guy floping two pair (or better)... but not likely and if i'm gonna have to try to double up sometime why not with this hand?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1030)
SB (t7057)
BB (t590)
UTG (t2242)
MP (t2190)
CO (t391)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t100</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to t391</font>, Hero calls t391, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls t291.

Flop: (t1248) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets t50</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t639</font>, UTG calls t589.

Turn: (t2526) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

River: (t2526) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Final Pot: t2526

[snapfc01]

any thoughts please?

[Scuba Chuck]

Personally, I think you want to tell UTG, this is yours, so backoff. Play this headsup and push.

If you were trying to entice another stack into play, I can see the reason for this, but I wouldn't entice a larger stack, who has room to play draws.

[snapfc01]

i'm new to online playing... specially sngs... but i just thought it was likely i'd have to double up to get in the money and this would probably be my best shot... no?

[Scuba Chuck]

Doubling up "to survive" is not your best chance of getting into the money. Studying 2+2 about Folding Equity is your best chance of getting into the money.

Food for thought: The easiest way to accumulate chips is by avoiding showdowns.

In this hand, a showdown is warranted. But don't go 3 way if you can avoid it, IMHO.

[Pepsquad]

No. You don't need to double up. You're in fine position here. 6 handed with two opponents crippled (for the time being), you need to get UTG the hell out of your pot with one opponent all-in. Adding t500 to your t1,000 stack is never a bad thing.

Pep.

[snapfc01]

once again not trying to fight anyone just wanting to know your thoughts. if someone moves all in over the top of UTG's mini raise (even if it is the short stack) and someone else calls... what hands will he call with?

[Pepsquad]

[ QUOTE ]
once again not trying to fight anyone just wanting to know your thoughts. if someone moves all in over the top of UTG's mini raise (even if it is the short stack) and someone else calls... what hands will he call with?

[/ QUOTE ]

Who's "he"? I'm not understanding your question.

[snapfc01]

he is UTG... if you were to make a miniraise (which i'm guessing you wouldn't b/c it's pointless) and someone went over the top all in and someone else cold called... what would u call with? knowing that someone went over the top all in and someone else called.

[Pepsquad]

[ QUOTE ]
he is UTG... if you were to make a miniraise (which i'm guessing you wouldn't b/c it's pointless) and someone went over the top all in and someone else cold called... what would u call with? knowing that someone went over the top all in and someone else called.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pre-flop? Depends on my read. I've honestly had situations similar to this that I'd call with any semi-strong Ace. I've been at other tables that I would fold AK and QQ in this situation.

Very table dependant.

[snapfc01]

that is exactly my point however... wouldn't you agree that the only hands he'll call here is Ax (most likely 10 and up ... maybe lower if suited) or a smaller pp... i realize this is still a risk... however i'm a huge favorite in either case. i will risk all my chips any day if i can get those odds.

[Pepsquad]

[ QUOTE ]
however i'm a huge favorite in either case. i will risk all my chips any day if i can get those odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, I think you've answered your own question. (I think you are wrong, but you've come to your own conclusion) When you have AA, you are willing to let as many people in pre-flop as you can and then push any flop.
I'm usually not willing to do that. I know that my AA likes one opponent a helluva lot more than two.

[snapfc01]

i'm not letting a ton in... i'm taking on a short stack (who i can't control actions of any longer but is likely to move in with any two cards 10 and up). why not let a guy who has a smaller pp try to hit for a good amount 400 when he only has a 1 in 11 chance of flopping the set... or an Ax when he has tiny odds of improving to be better then my AA?

[Pepsquad]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm not letting a ton in... i'm taking on a short stack (who i can't control actions of any longer but is likely to move in with any two cards 10 and up). why not let a guy who has a smaller pp try to hit for a good amount 400 when he only has a 1 in 11 chance of flopping the set... or an Ax when he has tiny odds of improving to be better then my AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you need to run some hands on a calculator. Odds of flopping a set are 7.5 to 1 I believe. Run KQ suited against AA. A lower PP is about a 4:1 dog. The problem is, when you are ahead post-flop you probably won't be getting more out of him. But when you are behind, you'll be going home based one your auto-push of the flop.

[snapfc01]

the aces have over an 80% chance of winning anything he could be holding here... and that is if it is played all the way out... i'm only letting him see 3 cards giving me a 90% chance of still having the best hand post flop meaning 9 of time times i'll take an extra 400 out of the pot. and i don't agree with him always folding to my post flop all in if i'm ahead. if he has kings or queens he is likely to call as long as no overcard comes... if he is playing something like AQ and the Q hits he's putting all him money in with me. if he is playing king queen (which i really don't see many people playing... unless they are really weak) and the king or queen is the high card on the flop they are going to put their money in. and with all of these cases i'm a huge favorite still after they have "hit" there hand. and i'm sure i've read you have a 1 in 11 chance of flopping a set.... however you have to take into consideration my chance of flopping a set (or getting an ace on the turn or river b/c as you said... no matter what i'm all in on the flop) to me it just seems like i am getting the best of this 90% of the time... and no play in poker can win 100%. besides if he has a smaller pp who says he will fold to another 600 raise preflop?

[Pepsquad]

[ QUOTE ]
the aces have over an 80% chance of winning anything he could be holding here... and that is if it is played all the way out... i'm only letting him see 3 cards giving me a 90% chance of still having the best hand post flop meaning 9 of time times i'll take an extra 400 out of the pot. and i don't agree with him always folding to my post flop all in if i'm ahead. if he has kings or queens he is likely to call as long as no overcard comes... if he is playing something like AQ and the Q hits he's putting all him money in with me. if he is playing king queen (which i really don't see many people playing... unless they are really weak) and the king or queen is the high card on the flop they are going to put their money in. and with all of these cases i'm a huge favorite still after they have "hit" there hand. and i'm sure i've read you have a 1 in 11 chance of flopping a set.... however you have to take into consideration my chance of flopping a set (or getting an ace on the turn or river b/c as you said... no matter what i'm all in on the flop) to me it just seems like i am getting the best of this 90% of the time... and no play in poker can win 100%. besides if he has a smaller pp who says he will fold to another 600 raise preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay. It was a fabulous play. You should play all of your AA this way.

[KenProspero]

Pepsquad:

I had a similar AA situation, am curious about your thoughts.

Let's assume the stacks are basically the same as the OP showed.

Hero Dealt AA on the BB.

All fold except SB, who is basically a rock. SB calls.

There are now about 500 chips in the pot from blinds and antes.

Would you push all-in and try to take the pot down now, or check hoping to get SB to give you some action.

In this hand, I checked. Flop came down all rags -- checked again. Turn, another rag. Check. River is a K (no flush or straights possible), SB makes a bet of 2/3 the pot, Hero Pushes and takes down the pot, Aces against Kings.

My thought process (post flop)was that the Rock probably had two big cards to call and probably didn't have any pair because he checked post flop. With no real draws it seemed like the best way to get chips in the pot.

However, I'm not really sure I was right -- comments welcome.

[snapfc01]

i'm just trying to discuss the play... is there a problem with that? can i not express my thoughts? that's what the forum is for right? instead of saying that why don't you point out what you think is wrong with that idea?

[esbesb]

I don't think this is a wrong play. I think I'd take the extra action from UTG. Whatever he has, you are a huge favorite. Let him in.

[david050173]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm just trying to discuss the play... is there a problem with that? can i not express my thoughts? that's what the forum is for right? instead of saying that why don't you point out what you think is wrong with that idea?

[/ QUOTE ]

In your case pushing looks weak. UTG knows you can't fold after putting in 40% of your stack. Might as well push so he can call with AK or AQ rather than getting away from them when no Ace, king or queen hits the flop. And if he folds it isn't the end of the world either. Just winning 500 chips means a lot for your folding equity.

As far as the other poster, if he flipped over 2 pair of rags you would very unhappy. Similiarly if no king came you would have gotten no money. On certain hands you have to raise preflop to get any money (if he holds 77 you might be able to get him to call a raise but on the flop he isn't calling anything unless your beat). When you hold aces, you have to remember if you are up against AK,AQ, the odds of an aces flopping are really low so the odds of those hands making a hand are smaller than normal. But they are still likely to be calling preflop raises.