Table VP$IP at Party microlimits question.

[Dead]

I don't have PT yet(I already used my 1k hands at Stars), but I was wondering if any Party players could do me a favor and give me an estimate of the average table VP$IP at the .50/1 and 1/2 levels. I don't need exact numbers because that's impossible. Just an estimate of the table VP$IP average at .50/1 and 1/2 full on Party.

For example: "In my estimation, the average VP$IP of the .50/1 Party tables is around 50%. The average VP$IP of the 1/2 Party tables is around 30%", etc.

Thanks guys.

[sweetjazz]

From the tables I have played at Party:

(The stat PT records is average seeing the flop, which will usually be a bit higher than VPIP, since it includes big blinds who see a free flop.)

0.5/1 ASF is 41.25% after ~8600 hands
1/2 ASF is 35.75% after ~2100 hands
1/2 (6 max) ASF is 49.70% after ~2900 hands

(Note: I have had to work harder to find good 1/2 tables. I often quickly leave 1/2 tables, while I rarely do so at 0.5/1 tables.)

Also, VPIP for the entire table isn't the crucial stat. It's what the individual VPIPs are, as well as other factors. I've stayed at tables with VPIPs in the low 30s because they were great -- two or three really bad players and a bunch of rocks. Many hands had the bad players and one solid player seeing the flop, with the solid player typically raising preflop.

Get PT. Also get GameTime+ or PlayerView. These are tools that will significantly improve your play if used properly.

[Dead]

Thanks a lot for posting these stats. I guess I was mistaken. I have never played on Party before I don't have the bankroll for .50/1, but I always thought that those tables were incredibly, incredibly lose, like 70% VP$IP or more. sOME OF Stars .25/.50 tables(which I will hopefully be at soon) sport VP$IP's of over 50%.

I mean those Party stats are still good, but I can't help but feel a little disappointed. I guess I had higher looseness expectations.

[Dead]

Thanks for your help.

[KingOtter]

Party is tighter than Paradise, and tighter than Pacific.

I've had more difficulty staying on loose tables on Party than I have other sites, plus it is a little harder to find them, since the table selection doesn't show % seeing flop like Pacific and Paradise.

Usually the tables I'm on (.5/1 only so far) start out around 36-38% VP$IP and then wind slowly down to 26% or so (or lower before I notice it). Around 21% VP%IP people start dropping off the table and it dies completely.

KO

[Dead]

Wow I thought Party was the loosest site on the web, outside of maybe Pacific.

[jon_keck]

In my estimation, the average VP$IP on Party $0.50/$1.00 is about %35 for weekdays and %40 on weekends.

Table selection is everything.

[Dead]

Anyone else have some estimates?

Thanks much,

Dead

[threei]

[ QUOTE ]
Party is tighter than Paradise, and tighter than Pacific.



[/ QUOTE ]

I played Paradise .50/$1.00 this weekend (bonus whoring)for the first time in a very long time. I thought the games were very tough. Just guessing I'd say the avg seen flop was low 30s and avg pot was <$6. I saw a few tables playing so tough that a PF raise generally picked up the blinds (and high % of pf raises), or there was reraise and it was heads up. Played more like $10/$20. Of course there were a couple of decent tables here and there, but it was nothing like Party or Pokerroom.

[VTDuffman]

I played Paradise before party, and found party to be much looser on average. I played a promo for Pacific, and it was the loosest thing I have ever seen in my life. Like Russian Roulette with cards.

The exact opposite is absolute. I was clearing a bonus through them and it was like pulling teeth. Tighest I had ever played on.

[KingOtter]

People were clearing the Super-Bowl bonuses this weekend, so it was a bit tigher than usual.

And after the flop Paradise is tighter, which is better for an aggressive player. But as far as seeing the flop, it is rather easy to find a 40+% seeing the flop, usually. Once the tables fill up during prime-time it gets harder to get onto those tables, but they're there.

I find Paradise a very easy place to make money, whereas I struggle at Party. It's probably just variance and I'll have a bad streak at Paradise, but whenever I get too frustrated with Party I hang out on Paradise for a while to get my confidence back.

A hand at Paradise:

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, MP3 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 folds, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets .75BB</font> (All-In), Hero calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has Kd 9h (one pair, sevens).
Hero has Qh Ad (two pair, aces and sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins 10.50 BB. </font>

On Party BB would have had 37o.

KO

[Dead]

Not to drag this off topic, but why didn't you cap the flop, out of curiosity? It seems pretty clear that BB is super shortstacked and just trying to bs you out of the hand.

[The13atman]

[ QUOTE ]
In my estimation, the average VP$IP on Party $0.50/$1.00 is about %35 for weekdays and %40 on weekends.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this sounds about right. 32-42% is what I'd call average, and anything higher than 32% is "good" and worth playing.

[detruncate]

40% is a reasonable estimate for Party .5/1. I managed ~43% between May and December with minimal effort re. table selection. About 2/3 of my hands were raked.

[KingOtter]

Guess I didn't notice... that would have been appropriate.

KO

[Al P]

For PV does it include my VP$IP for the table average? I thought I read on here that it takes the non-weighted average of everyone at the table.

[illunious]

[ QUOTE ]
In my estimation, the average VP$IP on Party $0.50/$1.00 is about %35 for weekdays and %40 on weekends.

Table selection is everything.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your estimates. With good tables at peak hours, I think 40-50 avg vpip is possible.

Note to anyone comparing it to other sites: the AVG VPIP is always lower than SAW FLOP percentages commonly displayed on poker sites.

[bardolph]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have PT yet(I already used my 1k hands at Stars), but I was wondering if any Party players could do me a favor and give me an estimate of the average table VP$IP at the .50/1 and 1/2 levels. I don't need exact numbers because that's impossible. Just an estimate of the table VP$IP average at .50/1 and 1/2 full on Party.

For example: "In my estimation, the average VP$IP of the .50/1 Party tables is around 50%. The average VP$IP of the 1/2 Party tables is around 30%", etc.

Thanks guys.

[/ QUOTE ]
My experience on Party .5/1 is that the average table is about 28-29 VP$IP, so I usually have to bounce around before I find something consistently higher than 30%. I can usually find one or two tables above 35%, but it takes some effort. Then, I don't play peak hours usually.

[detruncate]

The 43% I talked about was Saw Flop %, not VPIP. I didn't pay much attention to what I was posting. Must be my indifference with stats asserting itself.

Here's the thing: most .5/1 tables you find are just fine. It's also a good idea to have some exposure to different (profitable) game textures. Don't worry too much about it. Leave if it's obviously tighter than usual or you get too many decent players. I rarely sat at a table with more than 2 known TAGs. Sometimes 3, almost never more -- not because it's unprofitable per se, but because there's really no need.

Most table textures are fairly similar. Spend your time playing. There's more than enough time to worry about finding good tables when it becomes necessary -- it's one of the things that people work on at 1/2 or 2/4.

Focus your attention on individual players rather than table averages, especially if you are using weighted averages. And don't worry too much about it. Have I said that before? It obviously becomes much more important in tighter/more aggressive games, but having some experience with things like poor relative position will help you recognize and avoid it when it becomes a significant issue.

There are metric fucktons of threads that deal with table selection if you want to explore the topic futher. It will no doubt interest no one but myself that this is officially my last comment the subject.

Happy pokering.