decision with kk

[omnibob]

What do you do here? This raise is for about half of my remaining stack.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1075)
SB (t1080)
BB (t640)
Hero (t2375)
MP1 (t1300)
MP2 (t935)
CO (t1580)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t60</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to t275</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls t215.

Flop: (t580) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t300</font>, CO is all-in for 1305

[SossMan]

Auto call. I would expect AQ/KQ here many, many more times than QQ/55/44/AA

[partygirluk]

If you are going to trap preflop with KK, then folding this flop is inconsistent.

[omnibob]

After the raise to 13x BB, these are the hands I thought I might be against:

AQs: 4 ways
AA: 6 ways
KK: 1 way
QQ: 3 ways

I know it is tough to generalize, but do you think this is too conservative? This was the first raise that big I'd seen from my opponent, but I hadn't had much time to observer him.

[omnibob]

Why do you say I'm trapping preflop? Did it deserve another raise?

[mlee]

I have a question. When it is early in a tournament and the blinds are small, what would be a good raise with the KK in early position. This early should you just be trying to get all the marginal hands out even if it only means a small pot (basically just the blinds)? I get confused about this a lot early in a tournament. I think too many times I have let too many hands in and this causes me more grief.

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you say I'm trapping preflop? Did it deserve another raise?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

With AA and KK it is always a good idea to try to get all the $$$ in preflop. With AA you are never behind PF, and with KK you are almost never behind PF.

The number of times you are up against AA with KK PF will never be enough to make getting all your $$$ in PF with KK -EV.

So your PF call of the raise can be considered a slow play, or a trap.

Regards,
Woodguy

[nightlyraver]

OK, this is just one of those times when you need some kind of read to make a "good" decision. Only 2 hands beat you here (AA and QQ) as it is unlikely that anyone would re-raise pre-flop w/ 55,44,Q5,Q4 or 54. We can also probably rule out A /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif for the same reason. Thus, I am putting a "typical" player on either AA,QQ or AQ. Therefore, you lose 2/3 of the time on a call that is giving you 2185:1005 or about 2.18:1 and your a 4:1 dog if he has AA or QQ. Therefore, you cannot call if his range is only these 3 hands. HOWEVER, if we expand his range to include hands like AK,KQ,JJ-77,A5s PLUS a propensity to bluff at the pot, this is a clear call. It's also a clear call if you feel that he will make this push MUCH more often with AQ than with AA or QQ. Therefore, the question becomes, "will he ONLY re-raise with AA-QQ" AND/OR "will he only push with better than top pair." If you answered 'yes' to either of these then you must fold. This may sound weak/tight, but I feel it is correct. Not knowing this player, my gut feeling is that you doubled this guy up since he came over the top of an EP raiser substantially (suggests a big pair) and then pushed. I would only really call in this spot if he was a trickey player. But who knows, it's early in a small-stakes tourney and people sometimes do crazy stuff in that spot.

[docknet]

Wish I had a dollar for all the times I've been beat after the flop with KK. However, I agree that the best play was a reraise, trying to get all the money in.

One of the double-edged swords of low-entry-fee MTTs is that, especially early on, you never know what your gonna be up against. Example, the other day I made a huge bet with KK and the BB called with 52s, flopping a set of 2s. A couple of days later BB called my AA 3xBB bet with K5o and flopped two pair. (my table image is usually pretty tight, but I don't think most of them even notice that)

Perhaps I'm wrong, but when they go allin after the flop, I usually call. Just gotta take the lumps and move on.

[MLG]

[ QUOTE ]
Thus, I am putting a "typical" player on either AA,QQ or AQ. Therefore, you lose 2/3 of the time

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement is wrong.

[Masquerade]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you say I'm trapping preflop? Did it deserve another raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it's the second best possible hand pre-flop ... what do you think???

Normally I think 3 x BB is fine as a raise but when blinds are at a miniscule level your 60 is a little low. However that's OK if it has the effect of encouraging a re-raise. But you should have definitely raised it back to him. Raise so that he has to have a little over half his chips in the pot pre-flop - that might well make him go allin.

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thus, I am putting a "typical" player on either AA,QQ or AQ. Therefore, you lose 2/3 of the time

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's wrong on two levels.

1) The hand range is way too narrow.
2) Even with the too narrow hand range, you are ahead 57% (AA=6,QQ=3, AQ=12) of the time getting better than 2.5:1 on your money.

= very easy call.