Super Bowl XXXIX Game Thread

[Dynasty]

Kickoff is less than an hour away.

What's on my mind? In one year, there will be an extraordinary jump in the number of people who know what the roman numeral for 50 is.

Sports have been very good to me since I moved to Las Vegas in May of 2001. My football team has won two Super Bowls and is competing for a third. My baseball team won its first World Series in 86 years and hung the biggest choke around the neck of its arch rival. I even got to participate in the most prestigous rotisserie baseball league (LABR) in 2003 and finished in first place.

Las Vegas and I are lucky together.

I'll be rooting for my favorite player to kick another Super Bowl winning field goal. Go Pats.

[tbach24]

A. I'm wearing your favorite player's jersey.

B. My fantasy baseball league is much better than your's.

[IggyWH]

Can't believe I'm saying this but... Go Eagles! Sick of hearing all the New England talk and can't wait to see the downfall that will happen from their fans when the bubble bursts. They are good, but they are not one of the best teams ever, Bill is not one of the greatest coaches ever (at least not yet) and if I hear one more person compare Brady to Montana I'm jumping off a bridge.

[Vince Young]

[ QUOTE ]
In one year, there will be an extraordinary jump in the number of people who know what the roman numeral for 50 is.

[/ QUOTE ]
How do you figure?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

In one year, there will be an extraordinary jump in the number of people who know what the roman numeral for 50 is.

XL-ent point!!

[shadow29]

I guess I have to root for the Pats.

Too bad my Falcons couldn't do anything against the Eagles...

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

if I hear one more person compare Brady to Montana I'm jumping off a bridge.

Hopefully, by now you're on your way to some remote place where there's no TV, radio, or anyone who has ever heard of American football.

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
if I hear one more person compare Brady to Montana I'm jumping off a bridge.

Hopefully, by now you're on your way to some remote place where there's no TV, radio, or anyone who has ever heard of American football.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm PRAYING Aikmen won't say something like that during the game. If so, Joe's gonna show up and give him a glare like Marino gave Boomer when Boomer said Peyton is the next Dan Marino in not winning the big games. I know Collinsworth will though as he's a jock rider and Joe Buck just blows in general. Maybe I'll watch the game in mute. Wonder who's doing the radio broadcast?

[ethan]

gooooooooooooooo pats!

[Zeno]

Very Small Rant.

Start the game already. Christ Almighty. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

-Zeno

[Mars357]

Vince? for real???

[Vince Young]

Thought 40 was XXXX. Nevermind.

[sublime]

Sick of hearing all the New England talk and can't wait to see the downfall that will happen from their fans when the bubble bursts. They are good, but they are not one of the best teams ever, Bill is not one of the greatest coaches ever (at least not yet)

okay, i can give you a little leeway on the first statement. the second one is just flat out moronic.

[Mars357]

Brady may be good but he's not Vince Young! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[pudley4]

As they showed on the opening kickoff, the Eagles best chance to win is if they get great return team play. Patriots coverage is average at best.

[pudley4]

but McNabb's gotta protect the ball...

[ethan]

turnover already. goooo pats. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[pudley4]

His knee was clearly down.

[Bill Murphy]

Whatta tool, even though I know every announcer on every network would be ordered act that way, too.

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
Sick of hearing all the New England talk and can't wait to see the downfall that will happen from their fans when the bubble bursts. They are good, but they are not one of the best teams ever, Bill is not one of the greatest coaches ever (at least not yet)

okay, i can give you a little leeway on the first statement. the second one is just flat out moronic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which part... Bill not being one of the greatest coaches ever? I can name DOZENS of coaches better than him and I love how people just forget about how HORRIBLE he was in Cleveland.

He is a good coach, but not yet one of the greatest. Win this game and then we can discuss.

[partygirluk]

Hey. This is actually quite fun! That McNab guy seems shite though.

[Bill Murphy]

Guy just makes things happen. He'll get serious HOF consideration no matter what happens today.

And what a terible noncall by the ref, he was looking right at Macnabb go down.

[sublime]

I can name DOZENS of coaches better than him and I love how people just forget about how HORRIBLE he was in Cleveland.

dozens? lmao, you really have no clue do you?

as for cleveland, he wasnt horrible. he made the playoffs and was booed out of town when he decided to bench kosar.

[pudley4]

Ball hit him right in the hands. Weak.

[lapoker17]

Sublime - Who are your top ten coaches ever? Do you think Bill is in there?

[Tyler Durden]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sick of hearing all the New England talk and can't wait to see the downfall that will happen from their fans when the bubble bursts. They are good, but they are not one of the best teams ever, Bill is not one of the greatest coaches ever (at least not yet)

okay, i can give you a little leeway on the first statement. the second one is just flat out moronic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which part... Bill not being one of the greatest coaches ever? I can name DOZENS of coaches better than him and I love how people just forget about how HORRIBLE he was in Cleveland.

He is a good coach, but not yet one of the greatest. Win this game and then we can discuss.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two super bowls in three years in the salary cap era isn't enough? It is.

[Tyler Durden]

Is it me or did that kid screw up the coin toss? The coin didn't flip at all while in the air.

[IggyWH]

Yes, I have no clue...

yet your team is playing in the Super Bowl and you're here arguing with me about a coaches greatness.

gg

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sick of hearing all the New England talk and can't wait to see the downfall that will happen from their fans when the bubble bursts. They are good, but they are not one of the best teams ever, Bill is not one of the greatest coaches ever (at least not yet)

okay, i can give you a little leeway on the first statement. the second one is just flat out moronic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which part... Bill not being one of the greatest coaches ever? I can name DOZENS of coaches better than him and I love how people just forget about how HORRIBLE he was in Cleveland.

He is a good coach, but not yet one of the greatest. Win this game and then we can discuss.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two super bowls in three years in the salary cap era isn't enough? It is.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I think greatest, I think Top5. Bele isn't Top5 to me but COULD squeak into discussions if he wins a 3rd SB in 4 years.

Lombardi
Gibbs
Parcels
Walsh
Madden
Noll
Landry
Brown
Shula
Allen
Halas
Stram
Lambeau
Grant
Owen

I can name at least 5 guys over Bele from that list.

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
His knee was clearly down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it was. I had a glass of beer between my eyes and the screen, all I heard was "turnover" and I figured I'd come here and gloat. As it is, I'm just stuck being happy that Philly's gone 3-and-out their first 2 possessions.

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it me or did that kid screw up the coin toss? The coin didn't flip at all while in the air.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, he jacked it up big time. Think that's why Dono ran up to him and shook his hand.

[pudley4]

Mitchell threw a really nice block - too bad the ball hadn't gotten to Owens yet...

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
Mitchell threw a really nice block - too bad the ball hadn't gotten to Owens yet...

[/ QUOTE ]

While this is true, if the refs don't see it it doesn't count. That said, the interception being called back sucks, since it would have happened with or without the penalty.

edit - good thing harrison intercepted it the next goddam play. go pats.

[Dynasty]

McNabb is throwing very poorly today. He's had two INTs (one called back) and a couple other passes that missed badly.

[Bill Murphy]

True, but the Pats recver's ain't running good routes, either. I think the Pats need to pound w/Dillon for awhile. The bomb'll be there later.

[Dynasty]

The Eagles have had four INTs. It hasn't been so bad because two of them have been called back (for correct reasons).

[Bill Murphy]

Sheesh. Although i guess Brady audibled that last one. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
The Eagles have had four INTs. It hasn't been so bad because two of them have been called back (for correct reasons).

[/ QUOTE ]

The Eagles' offense has been kinda ugly so far. The one play they had to TO (where he got the illegal pick) was a nice gain, but aside from that McNabb really hasn't impressed me.

That said, Brady and the Pats receivers haven't been doing so great either.

Hope you all bet the under for the 1st quarter, I guess. Go Pats.

[Lawrence Ng]

2 frickin' turnovers in the 1st quarter already for the Eagles...sad.

Lawrence

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
*RUN* The Fvcking Ball, Belichik.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Patriots have had 5 running plays and 7 passing plays.

[Lawrence Ng]

n/m

[istewart]

Nice pass.

[ethan]

Nice route by Smith for the first TD. Eagles haven't been playing great, but the Pats O has been terrible so far. Here's hoping they get slightly less pathetic soon.

(and yes. go pats.)

[Dynasty]

We've seen two occasions where "fumbles" were ruled on the field because the refs missed obvious knees down.

[istewart]

LOL

[ClaytonN]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the incredibly lame coin toss?

Oh well, go Philly. I'm obligated to cheer for them since they beat down on the Falcons.

Philly ball /images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[IggyWH]

Rut Roh Raggie... turnover in the redzone!

[Lawrence Ng]

Aye, what the fluck is with the turnovers???

Lawrence

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice route by Smith for the first TD. Eagles haven't been playing great, but the Pats O has been terrible so far. Here's hoping they get slightly less pathetic soon.

(and yes. go pats.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Eagles defense has played well so far. Pats D has done fine, particularly if you don't count TO getting the illegal pick mentioned earlier in this thread. Lets hope the Pats D gets more turnovers.

[ethan]

boy, that eagles' run game ain't working worth a damn, is it? here's hoping that pats actually pull a decent game together at some point.

--Ethan

[Lawrence Ng]

About damn time..

[craig r]

i wonder if the 2nd half will be like last year's SB. The defenses will probably be exhausted after the 3rd quarter.

craig

[Tyler Durden]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised nobody mentioned the incredibly lame coin toss?



[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, I totally mentioned it. Scroll up.

[istewart]

Get ready for Sir Paul!

[tech]

Sweet clock management by Philly at the end of the half. Reid gets this week's Herm Edwards award.

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
i wonder if the 2nd half will be like last year's SB. The defenses will probably be exhausted after the 3rd quarter.


[/ QUOTE ]

This should open up a more offensive game in the 2nd half and more points. I couldn't stand it if the final score was something like 14-10... talk about booorrriiinnnggg.

Lawrence

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
Get ready for Sir Paul!

[/ QUOTE ]

Next year, they should get Alizee, oui?

Lawrence

[ClaytonN]

Ah, yes, there it is.

I don't necessarily blame the kid, I blame the stupid people in charge of the whole thing and the idiot who though "Hey, I know, let's get a cute little kid to toss the coin"

"Won't that be a lot of pressure on the kid?"

"Hell no, in fact, we won't even show him how to toss this larger and heavier coin! We'll just let him throw itup in the air, and the fans will just say 'Aww, what a cute little kid!'"

[ClaytonN]

[ QUOTE ]
Get ready for Sir Paul!

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh my god, please do not get me started on that one.

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Get ready for Sir Paul!

[/ QUOTE ]

Next year, they should get Alizee, oui?

Lawrence

[/ QUOTE ]

You, sir, are goddam motherf'ing correct.

[IggyWH]

Not exactly the cleanest and most exciting half of football, but not too bad for a Super Bowl so far. I guess since last year was good, I figured this years would blow. I'm satisfied so far.

[ClaytonN]

Poor Jimmy Johnson, haha

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
Not exactly the cleanest and most exciting half of football, but not too bad for a Super Bowl so far. I guess since last year was good, I figured this years would blow. I'm satisfied so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

(speaking as a pats fan)

Yea. It's been a fun half of football.

[Dynasty]

The Patriots moved the ball really well at the end of the first half. Let's see what they can do with the ball to start the second half.

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
The Patriots moved the ball really well at the end of the first half. Let's see what they can do with the ball to start the second half.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like they completely owned the Eagles...

Amazing catch

[sublime]

deion branch rules

[Dynasty]

Deion Branch: 9 rec, 109 yards.

[sublime]

Looks like they completely owned the Eagles...

ho hum

[sublime]

Deion Branch: 9 rec, 109 yards.

whats freddie mitchells stats?

/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[tbach24]

i couldn't agree more

[sublime]

Looks like they completely owned the Eagles

[IggyWH]

I'm sick of them going to a horrible camera angle during the game. Couldn't tell what the hell was going on during that Eagles 3rd down. Eff football on FOX!

[craig r]

Is it just me or was that a bad call on 3rd and 4?

craig

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it just me or was that a bad call on 3rd and 4?

[/ QUOTE ]

Brady threw it to the most open guy.

[ClaytonN]

tie game

[sublime]

tie game

good eye

[Lawrence Ng]

What was the Vegas over/under for this game again?

Lawrence

[Dynasty]

I think the o/u was 37.

[sublime]

I think the o/u was 37.

47

[ClaytonN]

danke

[sublime]

if it wasnt for TO (and freddie to a lesser extent) i would really like the eagles. good hard hitting team.

[Dynasty]

Tied after all three quarters so far.

Overtime?

[Lawrence Ng]

20-14 now. Goooo Pats!!!

Lawrence

[sublime]

clayton, score update please!

[craig r]

NE is the only team that PHI would play that I wouldn't root for PHI.

craig

[sublime]

NE is the only team that PHI would play that I wouldn't root for PHI.

i would probably root for buffalo (drew is just a good guy), but yeah i agree with you.

TO should still be stricken MUTE by his physician, Dr. God.

[Michael Davis]

I don't like TO either, and maybe you think it's a terrible decision, but I really don't see how you can disrespect the fact that he's playing in this game. Unless you're just insulting the fact that he cited God as reason, which is fine.

-Michael

[Dynasty]

Eagle fans are going to crucify Pinkston for leaving the game with cramps- especially with TO playing so well.

[sublime]

no, i dont care that he is playing. as a matter of fact its admirable. but he is still a moron.

[craig r]

off topic...the books must be getting nervous right now. the action was definitely on NE.

craig

[istewart]

TO is too cool. Great for the NFL. How can you not like him?

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
TO is too cool. Great for the NFL. How can you not like him?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's easy.

[istewart]

It's easy if you're a square. Mitchell is very obnoxious, TO is to a very small extent. He's a lot of fun, very enjoyable to watch.

[sublime]

TO is too cool. Great for the NFL. How can you not like him

he insults his teammates (garcia in particular)

did a TD celebration on the 50 yard line (dallas)

missed signing a piece of paper to become a free agent and then demanded to be traded. when he was, he then said he wasnt going to the team that he was traded to (basically screwing two teams at once)

yeah a great guy.

[sublime]

It's easy if you're a square

or if you have some idea how a man should conduct himself.

[sublime]

mcnabb = neil odonnell (sp?)

[istewart]

You can say all this now since the Patriots are trained like the military and are never out of line.

But you're also a Red Sox fan.

[sublime]

But you're also a Red Sox fan

and?

they may not be as straight edged as the yankees (steriod abuse aside) but i cant think of anybody on the sox roster who insults thier opponents or teammates the way TO has.

[istewart]

I'm really not talking about off the field occurrences here. I find that rather irrelevant most of the time, and especially when I'm just watching a football game. I personally find his antics amusing and a good addition to the game (and everyone does this kind of [censored] anyway).

I made the Red Sox comment primarily because I'm a Yankees fan, but also because I think the Sox and the Eagles have quite a few similarities as teams.

[sublime]

I made the Red Sox comment primarily because I'm a Yankees fan, but also because I think the Sox and the Eagles have quite a few similarities as teams.

i still have no idea what you are talking about.

TO is a GREAT WR, but he is a jackass. thats all i am saying. i find his antics to be totally disrespectfull of the NFL (teams, players etc)

[sublime]

does philly realize that it is the 4th quarter?

[craig r]

PHI bettors and fans must be so pissed about the clock management. this is horrible.

craig

[istewart]

WESTBROOK WTF

Nearly everyone does the same antics anyway. Just because his are extravagant and he takes time in thinking them out doesn't make him an ass.

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
does philly realize that it is the 4th quarter?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why rush? 3 minutes left and they can't stop the run. It's obvious they plan on an onside kick when they score.

[Michael Davis]

This is truly bizarre. There were more than five minutes left when the Eagles got the ball. It should not have gotten to the two minute warning with them still having the ball and no more points.

-Michael

[sublime]

Nearly everyone does the same antics anyway. Just because his are extravagant and he takes time in thinking them out doesn't make him an ass.

we can disagree on this. personally i find him annoying. what i cant argue is how great a reciever he is.

ps

brady > mcnabb

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
Nearly everyone does the same antics anyway. Just because his are extravagant and he takes time in thinking them out doesn't make him an ass.

we can disagree on this. personally i find him annoying. what i cant argue is how great a reciever he is.

ps

brady > mcnabb

[/ QUOTE ]

I am more than aware /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
This is truly bizarre. There were more than five minutes left when the Eagles got the ball. It should not have gotten to the two minute warning with them still having the ball and no more points.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

Philly has 2 timeouts and they can't stop the run today. Do you seriously think it would be smart to try and score quick and then kick the ball off to New England?

[sublime]

Philly has 2 timeouts and they can't stop the run today. Do you seriously think it would be smart to try and score quick and then kick the ball off to New England?

giving the ball back to ne HAS to be higher EV than doing an onside kick.

[istewart]

HOLY [censored]

[sublime]

nice catch by lewis

[istewart]

Gotta onside.

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
Philly has 2 timeouts and they can't stop the run today. Do you seriously think it would be smart to try and score quick and then kick the ball off to New England?

giving the ball back to ne HAS to be higher EV than doing an onside kick.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not what I would have done but like I said, Philly can't stop the run and you need 2 scores. They took their time to make sure they'd get a score so I don't think it was that bad of a decision.

[Ianco15]

Shitty onside.

[istewart]

good [censored] game

[sublime]

It's not what I would have done but like I said, Philly can't stop the run and you need 2 scores. They took their time to make sure they'd get a score so I don't think it was that bad of a decision.

i dunno man. recovering an onside kick is pretty damn hard. i mean, phillys D is pretty damn good. reid is gonna have to explain this one.

[sublime]

good [censored] game

i just licked your avatar

[Ianco15]

Looks like the Pats squeezed out another one by 3 points , the margin of all their superbowl wins.

[istewart]

Brady MVP?

[Ianco15]

[ QUOTE ]
Brady MVP?

[/ QUOTE ]
Probably.

[sublime]

Brady MVP?

good question. i cant see anybody else besides branch getting it, so yeah.

[istewart]

This has been pretty good so far. A lot better than I expected.

[sublime]

if philly pulls this out, it will be magical.

[istewart]

Why pass?

[istewart]

D
Y
N
A
S
T
Y

[sublime]

rodney harrison > freddie mitchell

[ClassicBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Brady MVP?

good question. i cant see anybody else besides branch getting it, so yeah.

[/ QUOTE ]

Harrison or Bruschi deserve some consideration.

[tbach24]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
Brady MVP?

good question. i cant see anybody else besides branch getting it, so yeah.

[/ QUOTE ]

Harrison has 2 picks and 1 sack... maybe?

[sublime]

Harrison or Bruschi deserve some consideration

this is the real world!

i do agree with you btw

[sublime]

Harrison has 2 picks and 1 sack... maybe?

hes probably my favorite player, so i hope so.

[istewart]

Bruschi is so cool-looking.

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
Harrison has 2 picks and 1 sack... maybe?

hes probably my favorite player, so i hope so.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking they're sick of giving it to Brady for "good" games. He had a little better than good game this year though.

[The-Matador]

Donavan McNabb could not have crapped the bed any more completely.

[sublime]

Bruschi is so cool-looking.

thats my dad

[mcb]

I really hope they give it to harrison. Played one hell of a game. gg freddy mitchell /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Bill Murphy]

Awful all around, but the Pats experience was the difference.

I can't believe I'm saying this but you can make a strong case for TO for MVP. Prolly will go to Harrison or Bruschi.

Congrats, Boston.

[ClaytonN]

That was a coaching error at the end. Andy Reid completely blew it. You have to have 2 plays in mind before you break the first huddle.

Still, wow. Amazing that McNabb threw the ball down the MIDDLE of the field, TWICE. And the first time the guy actually caught the damn ball. That was pretty awful.

[Zoelef]

[ QUOTE ]
[Andy] Reid gets this week's Herm Edwards award.

[/ QUOTE ]

I second this. After those last 6 minutes he might already qualify for a lifetime achievement award.

[Ianco15]

God damn I hate the Patriots. I probably hate them more than I hated the Cowboys during the nineties when they waxed my Niners.

[Bill Murphy]

Ya should have been around when the Cowboys were waxing 'em in the 70's.... /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

But, hell, five rings, we can't complain for a LONG time. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[istewart]

Branch, damn.

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
Branch, damn.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least they didnt give it to [censored] brady.

[Bill Murphy]

can't argue too much; coulda been half dozen guys.

I was amzed that Brady's rating was 110. Didn't seem like he did much at all. No picks tho.

[banditbdl]

I never ceased to be amazed by the unbelievable lack of clock management skills I see in football games on a regular basis. Tonite, it was the Eagles and their ability to be completely oblivious to the fact that their down two freaking scores with less than 5 minutes in the game. Hello, McFly, err McNabb, hurry the eff up and get your team to the line, at least give yourself a chance.

If the Eagles hurry up maybe they can take advantage of a huge play like McNabb's pass to Lewis and be able to comfortably kick the ball deep to the Pats with 2 TOs and 2+ minutes on the game clock. Stop the run, get the ball back at your 20-30 yard line with maybe 1:30-1:45 still left on the clock. Instead, their idiocy leads to them being backed up with no chance. What a bunch of morons.

Super Bowl is a much bigger stage, but for sheer idiocy this was about on par with this year's Texas-Michigan Rose Bowl game. With 45 seconds left Texas goes into run the ball shutdown mode setting up the potential game winning field goal. Michigan's coach Lloyd Carr could have used his timeouts to stop the clock and give his offense a chance to score if the field goal was good, but instead the old dinosaur opts to save his TOs to ice the kicker, which accomplishes exactly nothing... nice move buddy.

I swear if we could just get these coaches to stop watching film for 2 hours a week and get them to play a game or two of Madden all these clock management issues would disappear, it ain't rocket science.

[Michael Davis]

I think NFL teams should hire a clock management specialist.

-Michael

[IggyWH]

While I don't agree with the way it was done, it wasn't too bad. There's 1 VERY important key to remember in all of this... Philly HAS to score twice. Sure, it's nice if they put the ball into the endzone quick, but the goal is to get a score. If that means you got to take your time to make sure you score, that's something you have to do.

[banditbdl]

[ QUOTE ]
While I don't agree with the way it was done, it wasn't too bad. There's 1 VERY important key to remember in all of this... Philly HAS to score twice. Sure, it's nice if they put the ball into the endzone quick, but the goal is to get a score. If that means you got to take your time to make sure you score, that's something you have to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the fact they HAVE to score twice is the whole reason they need to hurry the hell up. Taking that much time to score forces them into the onside kick situation where if they don't recover New England will be able to run the ball three times and give the ball back to Philly at no better than the 20-yard line with 45 seconds left. Since, they are so unlikely to recover the onside kick they have to take chances by running less than ideal plays quickly in order to give themselves a reasonable chance at the 2nd score. By wasting time, they turned Lewis' TD into little more than a glorified garbage time score.

[AngryCola]

The clock management was very bad.

I just got home and I'm drunk, so all I'll say is-

Great game by both teams.
It was much closer than I expected.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
PHI bettors and fans must be so pissed about the clock management.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually as a PHI bettor, I didn't mind since I only needed 1 score. Gives NE less time to get back ahead of the spread.

But yeah it was terrible.

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
While I don't agree with the way it was done, it wasn't too bad. There's 1 VERY important key to remember in all of this... Philly HAS to score twice. Sure, it's nice if they put the ball into the endzone quick, but the goal is to get a score. If that means you got to take your time to make sure you score, that's something you have to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the fact they HAVE to score twice is the whole reason they need to hurry the hell up. Taking that much time to score forces them into the onside kick situation where if they don't recover New England will be able to run the ball three times and give the ball back to Philly at no better than the 20-yard line with 45 seconds left. Since, they are so unlikely to recover the onside kick they have to take chances by running less than ideal plays quickly in order to give themselves a reasonable chance at the 2nd score. By wasting time, they turned Lewis' TD into little more than a glorified garbage time score.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't score, there's no reason to do it quick enough so you can kick the ball off to New England. SCORING IS THE KEY!! If it takes you time to score, that is fine because you can always onside kick it.

Onside kicks this year were around 17% recovered by the kicking team I believe. Sure that's not great, but that means you still have a chance. Hurrying up with tired players and the wrong playcalls and not scoring at all gives you no chance.

[Michael Davis]

Yeah, but you're options are not don't score or score and have under two minutes. It's all about how you operate and not being results-oriented. There's no way you can argue that the Eagles gave themselves a significantly higher percentage chance of scoring by huddling up every play than if they had just run the hurry-up, especially since they had been lighting NE up by passing the ball.

-Michael

[RogerZBT]

What an UGLY end to the game. Could Philly have played any worse down the stretch? Were they unaware that the game had to be completed in a finite amount of time or did they just not want it bad enough? They almost seemed afraid to run plays.

First time in the run I thought Brady clearly deserved MVP and they don't give it to him.

Wonder what Freddie Mitchell is doing now.

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
What an UGLY end to the game. Could Philly have played any worse down the stretch? Were they unaware that the game had to be completed in a finite amount of time or did they just not want it bad enough? They almost seemed afraid to run plays.

First time in the run I thought Brady clearly deserved MVP and they don't give it to him.

Wonder what Freddie Mitchell is doing now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Being a huge philly fan, but somewhat realistic, I knew that with 5ish minutes left and being down by 10, it would be a tough win. They marched down the field and made some slightly questionable calls, BUT, they got themselves 7 points with reasonable time left to get another drive for a field goal.

You can hate them on several other drives, but their 4 minute drive at the end wasn't as bad as you think.

Hated nothing more than Collinsworth (I think?), saying their ONLY chance was to recover the onside kick, which was clearly wrong. 1:50 with 2 timeouts left is enough time to expect one more drive and FG potential.

[banditbdl]

[ QUOTE ]
Hated nothing more than Collinsworth (I think?), saying their ONLY chance was to recover the onside kick, which was clearly wrong. 1:50 with 2 timeouts left is enough time to expect one more drive and FG potential.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that Collinsworth is atrocious, but as soon as Philly lines up for the onsides kick a recovery or a miracle turnover becomes their only chance at having a chance to get in field goal position.

[SuitedSixes]

I agree, I had $10 on "Heads," and I think it should be a non-bet. There was no flip. I can't believe they didn't have the kid practice.

[pshreck]

No...

if they get a 3 and out, they have 2 time outs and leave themselves with almost a minute to have a drive for FG position.

This in fact happened, but NE had a great freaking bounce on the punt, and then the Eags wasted 20 seconds by having Westbrook catch a pass he was supposed to drop across the middle.

The point is, they had a chance to get the ball off the onsides, or a semi-decent chance to get a drive. Both were low percentage plays but neither were close to impossible.

[SuitedSixes]

P.S.

My Pats (-220) and the Under (47.5) parlay is g00t! (and was pretty much stress-free)

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
There's no way you can argue that the Eagles gave themselves a significantly higher percentage chance of scoring by huddling up every play than if they had just run the hurry-up, especially since they had been lighting NE up by passing the ball.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes you can...

For 1, the play calling would come from Dono and not Andy if you were hurrying up. Andy's the offensive guru, not Donovan. Also, since you're passing it every down, not only are your receivers running routes but then they're running back to the line. Probably the most important and overlooked aspect is your offensive line getting a breather. They're fat bastards and not in the same shape as everyone else on the field. They probably need the breather more than anyone else.

All 3 of those things combined show exactly why taking your time to score on a must score situation is better than hurrying up and not scoring.

[banditbdl]

[ QUOTE ]
This in fact happened, but NE had a great freaking bounce on the punt

[/ QUOTE ]

New England's punter had been on fire all game though, making big accurate kicks. The New England special teamers were behind the ball before it even hit the ground. And worst case they are still at the Twenty and need 45 yards in 50 seconds.

[ QUOTE ]
then the Eags wasted 20 seconds by having Westbrook catch a pass he was supposed to drop across the middle.


[/ QUOTE ]

You can lament this, but the fact is the Eagles hadn't done anything offensively in the previous 5 minutes that led you to believe they were aware that the game was being timed. Westbrook catching the pass was just the finishing touch.

Plus, this wasn't the Vikings D out there either, the Pats had screwed up the Lewis play by not having anybody with deep support, but Philly's odds of going 50+ yards in less than a minute with no timeouts and their lack of clock management skills were pretty close to zero.

[banditbdl]

[ QUOTE ]
Probably the most important and overlooked aspect is your offensive line getting a breather. They're fat bastards and not in the same shape as everyone else on the field. They probably need the breather more than anyone else.


[/ QUOTE ]

Really, then why were the lineman (Fraley in particular) looking to get into the hurry-up. The breather thing works both ways you know.

It's a given that huddling up increased the Eagles chances to score, it might have even doubled or tripled their chance of getting that first score. However, it DESTROYED any chance they had of making the second score, the score that truly matters. This was especially true given Reid's decision to go with the onside kick, which was a mockery against a well-coached and prepared team such as the Pats. If Reid had planned to kick it deep than he would have some defense for not going no-huddle but that wasn't the case. He essentially made recovering the onside kick his only hope, and if you've got the ball in your hands down 10 with more than 5 minutes to play and have already resigned yourself to the fact that you are going to have to recover an onside kick to win than you need to go back to the freaking drawing board.

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Probably the most important and overlooked aspect is your offensive line getting a breather. They're fat bastards and not in the same shape as everyone else on the field. They probably need the breather more than anyone else.


[/ QUOTE ]

Really, then why were the lineman (Fraley in particular) looking to get into the hurry-up. The breather thing works both ways you know.

It's a given that huddling up increased the Eagles chances to score, it might have even doubled or tripled their chance of getting that first score. However, it DESTROYED any chance they had of making the second score, the score that truly matters. This was especially true given Reid's decision to go with the onside kick, which was a mockery against a well-coached and prepared team such as the Pats. If Reid had planned to kick it deep than he would have some defense for not going no-huddle but that wasn't the case. He essentially made recovering the onside kick his only hope, and if you've got the ball in your hands down 10 with more than 5 minutes to play and have already resigned yourself to the fact that you are going to have to recover an onside kick to win than you need to go back to the freaking drawing board.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's all fine and dandy (tangent : remembering George Carlin's standup talking about never being fine and dandy at the same time) BUT IF YOU DON'T SCORE THE FIRST SCORE THE SECOND ONE IS MEANINGLESS!

You keep on talking about leaving yourself time for the second score. I agree COMPLETELY and I'm not arguing they should have counted on the onside kick. You have to get that first score though to even think about the chances of the second score. Andy's a great enough coach that he understood this and made a decision that would best suit the Eagles chances of getting 2 scores from the way he sees it. I'm not an Eagles fan but I have a lot of confidence in Andy that he knew what he was doing.

Donovan was very flustered. He just came away from throwing a horrible pick the possession before. Andy obviously wanted to slow it down to calm Donovan down and so Andy could call the plays he wanted.

If you want to use a poker analogy... As a poker player you always want to leave yourself with outs. If you hurry up and make a mistake, you're drawing dead because you didn't get that first score. Slowing down and making sure they got that first score though they still left themselves with an out of recovering the onside kick.

Andy Reid hasn't been in the last 4 NFC Championship games and the SuperBowl this year because he's a moron. He knew what he was doing and made the best decision given the situation. This wasn't a screwup on his part, it was an educated decision... one that obviously backfired.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
You can hate them on several other drives, but their 4 minute drive at the end wasn't as bad as you think.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

It was worse.

[banditbdl]

[ QUOTE ]
BUT IF YOU DON'T SCORE THE FIRST SCORE THE SECOND ONE IS MEANINGLESS!


[/ QUOTE ]

You have it backwards, if you don't get the second score it's the first score that was meaningless. If you don't get the first score, well then there can be no second score and you lose just the same as you did by scoring the first TD, you don't get any style points for losing by 3 instead of 10.

[ QUOTE ]
I agree COMPLETELY and I'm not arguing they should have counted on the onside kick.

[/ QUOTE ]

But by arguing that they need to take their time in order to increase their chances of making the first score they force themselves into the onside kick. You either take your chances and hurry up so you can have a comfortable amount of time left on the clock to kick it deep or go with the more methodical route the Eagles choose and accept that you'll have to pray you recover the onside kick. You can't have it both ways. You are arguing that they count on the onside kick whether you like it or not.

[ QUOTE ]
If you want to use a poker analogy... As a poker player you always want to leave yourself with outs. If you hurry up and make a mistake, you're drawing dead because you didn't get that first score. Slowing down and making sure they got that first score though they still left themselves with an out of recovering the onside kick.


[/ QUOTE ]

Again, the problem is that by relegating yourself to the onside kick you've left yourself with a 1 or 2 outer to catch your hand on the turn, but you'll be drawing dead on the river if you miss. There simply will not be enough time to make a drive into field goal range. If you gamble on the earlier street by going for a faster score than you'll have an open-ended straight draw to kick the ball deep and use the 2-min. warning and your time outs to get the ball back with decent field position and a workable clock.

You're right in that if you screw up in the hurry-up and fail to score all hope is lost game over. However, the hope you keep alive by taking the slow road to the endzone is nothing more than a fool's hope, the game will have already been lost, before you even enter the endzone.

[RogerZBT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BUT IF YOU DON'T SCORE THE FIRST SCORE THE SECOND ONE IS MEANINGLESS!


[/ QUOTE ]

You have it backwards, if you don't get the second score it's the first score that was meaningless. If you don't get the first score, well then there can be no second score and you lose just the same as you did by scoring the first TD, you don't get any style points for losing by 3 instead of 10.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the first score is meaningless unless you're going to sqaunder so much time getting it that it makes the second score virtually impossible. Managing the clock is AT LEAST as important as the first score.

The worst part is there was a middle ground. They were SO lethargic at the end. Even a little pep in the step could have saved them 30-40 seconds, without much of a loss of too much quality.

And if you're willing to trade a chance to win a SB for a breather, GET OFF THE FIELD.

[daveymck]

Poor game imho, but for me the worst decision was the onside kick they very rarely work and it gave the ball to the Pats in midfield meaning the defence could hold but you are always getting possention back deep in your own half.

By taking a normal kick you then put some pressure on try and hold them and get the ball back in midfield and at least have the option of going for the tie.

[jakethebake]

Anyone else wonder what NE did to get into McNabb's head? On the sidelines before halftime he just looked totally beaten. Same thing after halftime. he look on his face just says he doesn't believe he can win. Or maybe T.O. did it, yelling at him on the sidelines. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Voltron87]

xpost from Sports Betting

McNabb made a lot of uncharacteristic TERRIBLE throws. Some of those were just flyballs. Although he did have that nice drive to tie it up in the 3rd quarter, the rest of his game was pretty bad.

I have to hand it to TO, he did great and I have a lot more respect for him now after the SB than before.

The main reason the Eagles lost is they gave the ball away a few times (I'm looking mostly at McNabb), did not capitalize on the Brady fumble (3 and out and gave it to NE in good position) and could not stop Corey Dillon and the screen passes in the 2nd half.

That said they covered. Wh00t!

[Michael Davis]

Terrible throws are not uncharacteristic of McNabb. He always whizzes 5 balls over his receivers' heads.

-Michael

[Joe Tall]

I'm so glad Dynasty started this thread.

Dynasty,
Joe Tall