Jose Canseco

[_2000Flushes]

Canseco has a book coming out later this month in which he is supposed to implicate Mark (EDIT)McGwire and Jason Giambi for steroid abuse.

This guy has always been a dick. I found this out when I was a huge fan of his as a kid. I doubt he actually wrote (or has even read) the book, but there are better ways to go about this.

But that's not to say that his ERA of 27 isn't something to be admired.

Article from when Canseco announced his intent to write a book. (http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/caple_jim/1385450.html)

-2kF

[BeerMoney]

Hey, let's not kill the messenger here. Do you think he did inject McGuire?

Let's talk about whether we think what he said is true, and then what a dick he is for ratting someone out.

[Cornell Fiji]

I don't know why I feel the need to correct you on this one but its McGwire.

Before performance enhancement:
http://www.thedman.net/project2/images/mcgwire.jpg

After:
http://www.ford-mobley.com/players/SI-McGwire.jpg

9 days until pitchers and catchers report.

-Steve

[BeerMoney]

Dude, I don't have a doubt in my mind that McGuire hit the sauce hard. That does not imply that Jose Canseco was the one injecting him, right?

[mmbt0ne]

I saw something about this on ESPN this morning. I think he said that Palmeiro, Pudge, Juan Gonzalez, and McGuire all used steroids, and that President Bush openly knew about it while he was the owner of the Rangers.

[DesertCat]

McGwire hit 49 HR as a rookie. He's also a naturally big guy. NYT's has a good article on it where LaRussa claims they charted all of his workouts and that LaRussa believe's he's clean.

[andyfox]

Canseco claims he did inject McGwire.

[andyfox]

Canseco said he introduced Texas teammates Rafael Palmeiro, Ivan Rodriguez and Juan Gonzalez to steroids after being traded to the Rangers in 1992.

"Neither our current owner, general manager and manager were with the Rangers then," Texas spokesman Gregg Elkin said. "The Rangers continue to support baseball's initiative to get steroids out of the game."

Canseco also said President Bush, the Rangers' general managing partner at the time, must have known about the steroid use.

[DesertCat]

NYTimes "Tony La Russa had two young sluggers on his Oakland Athletics teams of the late 1980's. Mark McGwire trained vigorously to become one of baseball's most productive power hitters, La Russa said yesterday. Then there was Jose Canseco, who reportedly implicates McGwire as a steroid user in his new book.

"I am absolutely certain that Mark earned his size and strength from hard work and a disciplined lifestyle," La Russa, the manager of the St. Louis Cardinals since 1996, said in a telephone interview yesterday. "When he was a kid in 1987, he hit 49 home runs. It's a real shame. For some people, this is going to put a stain."

According to a report yesterday in The Daily News, Canseco contends in his book, "Juiced," that he injected McGwire with steroids in the bathroom stalls of the A's clubhouse. The two were teammates in Oakland from 1986 until Canseco was traded to Texas in 1992.

In the book, scheduled for publication later this month, Canseco also says that McGwire introduced first baseman Jason Giambi to steroids and that Canseco himself injected three top players, including catcher Ivan Rodriguez, with performance-enhancing drugs, The Daily News reported.

Canseco's accusations about the use of banned substances by elite players are the latest for Major League Baseball, which will put more stringent drug testing into effect this season in the wake of the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative steroids scandal.

Canseco's baseball career meandered after he left the A's. Since his last major league game, in 2001, he has frequently been in legal trouble and has failed in two comebacks. McGwire hit 583 career home runs; in 1998, he hit 70, then a record, for La Russa's Cardinals.

La Russa said Canseco and McGwire were "not really close," and he strongly disputed the idea that McGwire used steroids, let alone allowed Canseco to administer them.

"We detailed Mark's workout routine - six days a week, 12 months a year - and you could see his size and weight gain come through really hard work, a disciplined regimen and the proteins he took - all legal," La Russa said.

"As opposed to the other guy, Jose, who would play around in the gym for 10 minutes, and all of a sudden he's bigger than anybody."

In 1998, McGwire admitted to using androstenedione, a testosterone-producing supplement, which was available over the counter and was legal in baseball then. McGwire later stopped using it, and he has long denied using other steroids. Major League Baseball banned androstenedione during the 2004 season.

Dave McKay, who coached McGwire in Oakland and in St. Louis and monitored his workouts, defended him yesterday.

"I swear on a stack of Bibles, I never saw him ever go anywhere near anything that would have a chance of hurting his body like a steroid," McKay said in a telephone interview. "He's a guy who's always preaching about health. I can't ever dream of Mark using steroids."

La Russa and McKay said that Canseco would speak openly about steroids and ignored advice to stop using them. "He'd say, 'Come on, man, what are you talking about? I got the world by the tail,' " La Russa said. "Sometimes you suspected, and then guys would deny it. Jose would make a joke of it."

Canseco had promised to name names in his book, and he did not stop with McGwire. The Daily News reported that Canseco claims to have taught Rodriguez, Rafael Palmeiro and Juan Gonzalez, who were teammates from his years in Texas, to use steroids. The article also said that Canseco writes of witnessing McGwire and Jason Giambi injecting each other with steroids when they were with the A's.

La Russa managed Giambi in 1995, when Giambi was a rookie. Canseco rejoined the team in 1997, the only year he played with both McGwire and Giambi. La Russa was gone by then, but he insisted that because he believed McGwire did not use steroids, he would not have used them with Giambi.

Giambi testified before the federal grand jury in the Balco case and, according to reports in The San Francisco Chronicle in December, he admitted he had used steroids, but not before 2001.

"I know Jason says he was mentored by Mark, and in a lot of ways, he was, as far as how to be a professional, how to work, how to hit," La Russa said. "I guarantee they did talk about workout routines. But he didn't involve him with that illegal stuff."

La Russa said he believed Canseco had several motives for writing the book.

"He's hurting for money and he needs to make a score," La Russa said. "What's a more sensational thing to say, and who's a more sensational target to pick than Mark?

"Secondly, I think he's very envious and jealous that Mark had the career he had. If you line them up side by side, which we did in '86, '87, '88, Jose was the more talented player and, in fact, more intelligent about the game.

"Mark wanted an uncomplicated swing and a 'see it, hit it' approach. He didn't have a lot of information on the other pitchers. Jose was really cerebral at the start, and look at where their careers have gone."

A publicist for Canseco's book, which has the subtitle "Wild Times, Rampant 'Roids, Smash Hits and How Baseball Got Big," said last week that Canseco would not speak with reporters until "60 Minutes" ran a segment on him on Feb. 20, the day before the book is to go on sale."

[nongice626]

[ QUOTE ]
Canseco claims he did inject McGwire.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe thats prison lingo.

[Daliman]

Not sure if this is true, but a freind of mine who used to play Div. 1 Football said that if you used androstendione and creatine, it effectively creates a steroid. Now, maybe this is in braod terms, or maybe it's BS, but he did say that's why he could take one or the other, but not both.

I guess the creatine was more for recovery(kept fluids in the muscles) and the andro was for the power. Could be wrong tho.

[_2000Flushes]

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure if this is true, but a freind of mine who used to play Div. 1 Football said that if you used androstendione and creatine, it effectively creates a steroid. Now, maybe this is in braod terms, or maybe it's BS, but he did say that's why he could take one or the other, but not both.

I guess the creatine was more for recovery(kept fluids in the muscles) and the andro was for the power. Could be wrong tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

Andro screws with your hormones like steroids, but not nearly to the same extent. And obviously it's legal. A creatine/andro combination does not constitute an effective steroid. You're right to be skeptical.

-2kF

[Glenn]

Creatine has nothing to do with steriods. Andro is to illegal steriods what a carrot is to LASIK.

[Daliman]

Eh, ok. He's a dick anyways.

[CCass]

It has amazed me that during the 'roids scandal of the past few years, that everyone always talks about Bonds, but noone ever seems to mention McGuire. If I had to bet money on only one of the 2 using 'roids during their career, I would bet on McGuire every time.

When comparing Bonds and McGuire, Bonds would be a HOFer without all of his HR's, McGuire would be sucking peters on the corner for $.25.

[sublime]

Canseco also said President Bush, the Rangers' general managing partner at the time, must have known about the steroid use.

not surprising. wasnt he warned about 9/11 also?

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]
If I had to bet money on only one of the 2 using 'roids during their career, I would bet on McGuire every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bonds and Sosa came into the league as skinny little guys, and by the late 90's were twice that size. At age 22, McGwire was six foot five, 225 and basically stayed the same size his entire career. I'll take that bet, I don't think McGwire even makes the top ten list of steroid suspects.

[jakethebake]

First, I'm not saying these guys didn't juice. But the whole thing with the pics before and after "enhancement" is just ridiculous. Every "before" pic we see of these guys is when they were like 19 years old. Of course they were smaller. I weigh 40 lbs more than I did at that age. Bodies mature.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
When comparing Bonds and McGuire, Bonds would be a HOFer without all of his HR's, McGuire would be sucking peters on the corner for $.25.


[/ QUOTE ]


Completely false. He'd never get 25 cents.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I had to bet money on only one of the 2 using 'roids during their career, I would bet on McGuire every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bonds and Sosa came into the league as skinny little guys, and by the late 90's were twice that size. At age 22, McGwire was six foot five, 225 and basically stayed the same size his entire career. I'll take that bet, I don't think McGwire even makes the top ten list of steroid suspects.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm fairly certain he was over 250 when he hit the 70 home runs.

[RogerZBT]

I'd say Bic Mac was easily 250 when he hit 70.

The difference between him and Bonds is that McGwire started putting on weight in his mid-late 20's when such gains were still "naturally" possible. Another example is Sosa who also put on his weight in his 20's.

Bonds didn't start getting bigger until his 30's and there's a MUCH bigger difference pre/post than with McGwire.

If I had to bet on one it would be Bonds. IMO, there's no way he was clean while there's at least some chance McGwire was.

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say Bic Mac was easily 250 when he hit 70.

...

Bonds didn't start getting bigger until his 30's and there's a MUCH bigger difference pre/post than with McGwire.

If I had to bet on one it would be Bonds. IMO, there's no way he was clean while there's at least some chance McGwire was.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's pretty much what I'm saying. McGwire did get bigger, but he started at a much bigger starting point than other players. In general, baseball players tend to get stronger and hit more homers as they age anyways. Bonds is of course off the charts. But players throughout history have shown this trend.

So it's difficult to say for certain who has been doping. Clearly we know some of them. Canseco, Caminiti and Giambi admitted to using steriods. Sheffield admits taking the "clear" and "the cream" from Bonds, but not knowing they were steriods. Bond's admits taking the "clear" but claims it was unintentional, he said thought it was flaxseed oil.

Everthing else is speculation. Until Big Mac admits he doped or some evidence surfaces, it's still plausible he didn't.

[Gallopin Gael]

[ QUOTE ]
Everthing else is speculation. Until Big Mac admits he doped or some evidence surfaces, it's still plausible he didn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Especially when you consider that he was known to be a gym rat for his entire career. The year to year difference in his stature looks like a natural progression that would occur from someone hitting the weights.

I'd also be more inclined to take the word of LaRussa, McKay and Steinbach any day over a convict looking to make a buck.

[West]

[ QUOTE ]
At age 22, McGwire was six foot five, 225 and basically stayed the same size his entire career.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am pretty sure this is a ridiculous statement.