Thoughts on ZJ's post

[slickpoppa]

My motivation for starting this thread is ZJ's post in the drop out of college to play poker thread. I will use ZJ's lists of 20 reasons as the basis for my post, but it is nothing personal against ZJ; his sentiments seem to be very common and are a good starting point for discussion. If my comments seem shrill, please remember that everything I say is in the spirit of friendly debate.

1. I currently have very little motivation to receive good grades.
2. I hate going to class.
3. I hate doing homework.
4. I hate studying.
5. I hate taking tests.
7. I am intelligent enough to teach myself anything that I could learn in school to myself, via a "a buck fifty in late charges at the public library".
8. Although I hate learning in the school environment, I love learning on my own, mostly via reading.

Ok, so what you are saying in 1-5 is that you are lazy. No one enjoys taking tests or doing homework, but doing these things are necessary in order to learn. The fact that certain things are not pleasurable to do is a very weak argument for not doing them. Of course doing homework, studying for tests, and such is tedious, but the long term rewards outweigh the short term costs.

In light of numbers 1-5, I'm calling bullsh*t on 7-8. If you are so eager to learn certain things, then why not do so with the guidance of someone who has devoted his whole life to the subject and knows a lot more about it than you?

6. I would rather kill myself than spend the next 10 years of my life as an architect, a doctor, a lawyer, a politician, a writer, or any of the other jobs that I would need a diploma to aspire to.

Congratulations, you would rather kill yourself than be a productive member of society. Instead, you have chosen, at least for now, a profession that creates nothing. You sit at a table or your computer all day as people transfer money between each other. What value or useful service does that add to society? Nothing. Okay, people get some entertainment out of it, but there other ways that you can entertain people that don't involve preying on the weaknesses and addictions of others. Maybe you feel that you have no duty to contrubte something to society; that is certainly your prerogative. But someday you may look back on your life and regret it.

9. I have had sleep issues my entire life, and conforming to a sleep schedule necessary for school is very tough for me, and often excruciatingly painful.

Oh poor Justin! Little Justin needs his sleepy weepy. Seriously, this is the worst reason of all so far. In college you basically have the ability to make your own schedule. Actual class time is only about 10-12 hours per week and you can sleep whenever you want outside of that time. You can even sleep through class if you want.

10. I am intelligent enough that without poker, I could find multiple ways to make > $100,000 per year, none of which require a diploma.

Do you care to elaborate on this, or are you letting others elaborate? With all due respect, what makes you think that you are so intelligent that there are several ways that you could make 100K a year as a college dropout? And even if you are that intelligent, intelligence is sometimes not as important as how other people perceive your intelligence. If you go to a banker, investor, employer, etc. and he has the choice between a University of Maryland (they have a pretty good basketball team, right?) dropout and Harvard MBA, who is he going to pick? Just tell him that you are crushing the Party 15/30 and 200 SNGs and I'm sure he'll give you that loan or job without asking any questions. Be sure to mention how much you love sleeping and hate doing work.

Or maybe you think that you'll be able to save up enough money through poker that you will be able to start your own business or whatever without relying on others for funding. Good luck with that. Maybe you can save up for several years and have enough to buy a McDonalds franchise.

12. I have matured far faster than I should have, and typical 19 year olds sometimes bore me.
15. I will have less trouble than most people to return to school if it becomes necessary, or my goals in life drastically change.
17. I am able to prioritize very well, including between poker and my social life.

Are you an only child? You seem to be very confident in your own exceptionalism. I'm sorry that all 19 year olds bore you your majesty. It's a shame that not everyone has the intellectual depth of your delicate genius. F*ck those 19 year olds who are studying to be doctors and engineers. What this world needs is more professional poker players and people bumming around Europe to discover themselves.


In sum:
You are young, lazy, and think that you are smarter than everyone else. Welcome to the club.

[ZeeJustin]

This is just a warning that in a few minutes, I'm gonna go off on this retard.

[eric5148]

[ QUOTE ]
1. I currently have very little motivation to receive good grades.
2. I hate going to class.
3. I hate doing homework.
4. I hate studying.
5. I hate taking tests.
7. I am intelligent enough to teach myself anything that I could learn in school to myself, via a "a buck fifty in late charges at the public library".
8. Although I hate learning in the school environment, I love learning on my own, mostly via reading.

Ok, so what you are saying in 1-5 is that you are lazy. No one enjoys taking tests or doing homework, but doing these things are necessary in order to learn. The fact that certain things are not pleasurable to do is a very weak argument for not doing them. Of course doing homework, studying for tests, and such is tedious, but the long term rewards outweigh the short term costs.

In light of numbers 1-5, I'm calling bullsh*t on 7-8. If you are so eager to learn certain things, then why not do so with the guidance of someone who has devoted his whole life to the subject and knows a lot more about it than you?

[/ QUOTE ]

These attitudes have nothing to do with laziness. Some people are just less obedient than others. School requires obedience, and nothing more.

[ QUOTE ]
In sum:
You are young, lazy, and think that you are smarter than everyone else. Welcome to the club.

[/ QUOTE ]

In sum:

You're jealous of Zee's natural talent for the game, and you want to bring him down to your level of self esteem.

[sublime]

This is just a warning that in a few minutes, I'm gonna go off on this retard.

i already did. the decided not to post it.

save your energy for something more constructive bro.

[Nagoo81]

[ QUOTE ]
My motivation for starting this thread is ZJ's post in the drop out of college to play poker thread. I will use ZJ's lists of 20 reasons as the basis for my post, but it is nothing personal against ZJ; his sentiments seem to be very common and are a good starting point for discussion. If my comments seem shrill, please remember that everything I say is in the spirit of friendly debate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm...

[ QUOTE ]

Ok, so what you are saying in 1-5 is that you are lazy.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh poor Justin! Little Justin needs his sleepy weepy.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you an only child? You seem to be very confident in your own exceptionalism. I'm sorry that all 19 year olds bore you your majesty. It's a shame that not everyone has the intellectual depth of your delicate genius. F*ck those 19 year olds who are studying to be doctors and engineers. What this world needs is more professional poker players and people bumming around Europe to discover themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
In sum:
You are young, lazy, and think that you are smarter than everyone else. Welcome to the club.

[/ QUOTE ]

If those aren't personal attacks, then I don't know what are. Yeesh.

Oh and, friendly debate???! If that is how you talk to your friends, then you must be a lonely guy, or have masochists as buddies.

Not so slick this time, poppa.

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]
This is just a warning that in a few minutes, I'm gonna go off on this retard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do it.

[GuyOnTilt]

Ok, so what you are saying in 1-5 is that you are lazy. No one enjoys taking tests or doing homework, but doing these things are necessary in order to learn.

No, they're really not. I've learned far more on my own time than from classes and instructors. That's not to say that test, homework, class, etc. won't help, but they most certainly are not "necessary in order to learn."

Congratulations, you would rather kill yourself than be a productive member of society. Instead, you have chosen, at least for now, a profession that creates nothing. You sit at a table or your computer all day as people transfer money between each other. What value or useful service does that add to society? Nothing.

Why does your main source of income define how social productivity? My "job" is not what defines me. The way I live my day to day life and conduct myself around others is what I take pride in. Would you rather I (or ZJ, whatever) work a 9 to 5 down at Kinko's? Would that be acceptable to you? 'Cause then I'd earn less than 10% of what I do now and wouldn't be able to do a lot of the things that I feel are important to me and hopefully are a help to society. Things like financially providing for a family of 4 in Rwanda, a child in Rwanda, supporting solid charities, etc. I probably wouldn't even be able to do the small little things that I enjoy doing either, like taking a homeless guy to lunch instead of giving him a few bucks and talking with him over a nice meal, or leaving all my change on the counter at fast food joints and grocery stores and 7-11's for the person behind me to use. Those are the type of things that matter to me and I feel help in some way at least to define who I am. I don't pretend my current occupation is noble by any means, but I also don't need that to define me as a person. If you do, then that's fine and there's nothing wrong with that, but don't assumme that's what others need to do as well.

Oh poor Justin! Little Justin needs his sleepy weepy. Seriously, this is the worst reason of all so far.

I can't relate to people with sleeping disorders because I don't have one myself, but I do know and know of people who do, and from what I can tell, it really does suck and is a serious ailment. Do you make fun of people who have asthma too? I don't know that ZJ's sleep problem is serious enough to really keep him from being able to "do" college, but I don't know that it's not and neither do you.

GoT

[AngryCola]

Guess what?

You're completely wrong and show a strong lack of understanding.

I would elaborate, but I have a feeling others will take care of it.

[slickpoppa]

OK, everyone relax. My intention was to play devil's advocate in somewhat of a playful manner. I guees after 10 beers my perception of how people will interpret things can be a little skewed. I did't think that comments like "poor justin" would be taken seriously. So I apologize if my what I said could be interpreted as a personal attack.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
but it is nothing personal against ZJ

[/ QUOTE ]

"LOL"

[ QUOTE ]
please remember that everything I say is in the spirit of friendly debate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, nm, then. It's all good.

[sublime]

like taking a homeless guy to lunch instead of giving him a few bucks and talking with him over a nice meal

my dad really liked you

[Zeno]

[ QUOTE ]

1. I currently have very little motivation to receive good grades.
2. I hate going to class.
3. I hate doing homework.
4. I hate studying.
5. I hate taking tests.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
12. I have matured far faster than I should have, and typical 19 year olds sometimes bore me.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
17. I am able to prioritize very well, including between poker and my social life.


[/ QUOTE ]

.

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
like taking a homeless guy to lunch instead of giving him a few bucks and talking with him over a nice meal

my dad really liked you

[/ QUOTE ]

Ni han, sir.

scrub

[sublime]

Ni han, sir.

zank u /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[lapoker17]

Jesus, who cares.

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so what you are saying in 1-5 is that you are lazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you idiot. How can people be this stupid? If I heard this every now and then, I would understand it. But this is how society thinks.

"Oh, you got bad grades? You must be lazy or stupid, most likely both." School is a waste of time for me. It's also very inefficient for me. When you work hard, it should be towards a goal. That goal could be to make money, to learn, to set up a future w/ your dream job, to help other people, to have fun, whatever. The bottom line is, for me, school isn't the best way to accomplish any of these goals.

Unlike you, I am an intelligent human being. If I read a psychology textbook, I don't need a lecture to reinforce the ideas in the book, or help me make sense of it. I read the book once, and I understand it. By learning the same way a few hundred other people learn in a lecture environment, I am slowing myself down. I am capable of learning much faster than that.

As I've said before, the degree is meaningless given my current goals in life. Maybe you can't comprehend this, but I don't want the same things in life that 99% of the population works their ass off for. A sweet job at the bottom of the promotion ladder is MEANINGLESS to me.

I guess there's no way to prove to you that I'm not lazy, but it isn't even close to the truth. I have met very few people in my life who are able to stop at nothing to accomplish a goal the way I am. When I delve into something, I don't do it half assed. I go all the way. The only example that would be meaningful to you would unfortunately be poker. If you think I have a lazy approach to poker, you clearly know nothing about me (I guess that much is already evident).

[ QUOTE ]
I'm calling bullsh*t on 7-8. If you are so eager to learn certain things, then why not do so with the guidance of someone who has devoted his whole life to the subject and knows a lot more about it than you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, college is for the masses. Most people are incapable of learning for themselves. I am not. If I mimicked your standard A student, I wouldn't learn much more at all, and I would spend maybe as much as 10x as much time as I need to to learn that material.

[ QUOTE ]
Congratulations, you would rather kill yourself than be a productive member of society.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're posting on a gambling forum, and criticizing me because my primary source of income will not greatly contribute to society. What exactly is your point?

Are you trying to imply that I have no morals, or ethics? If so, your opinion is ill-founded, and I'm sure you have no evidence to back that up. Do some research on the Bonomo foundation, and see what comes up. You'd be surprised.

[ QUOTE ]
In college you basically have the ability to make your own schedule.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you understand what "my schedule" is like. No institution on this planet has any program that could conform to it. I rarely stay on a 24 hour schedule like most people.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you care to elaborate on this

[/ QUOTE ]

All I'm gonna say, is that it's ridiculously easy to make money if you are intelligent. Hell, you don't even need intelligence, just a good idea. A good friend of mine recently took 2 months of masseusse classes, and started off averaging about $25/hour. Less than 4 months later, he's making about $50/hour. Doing this for 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year comes out to exactly $100,000. This is just one example to make $100k from 1 source of income. If you allow it to come from multiple sources of income, it's even easier.

[ QUOTE ]
Are you an only child?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I have a 22 year old brother who is the coolest person I have known in my life. I have also learned far more from him than from anyone else. He taught me how to think for myself, and you have no idea how grateful I am to have this gift.

[ QUOTE ]
You seem to be very confident in your own exceptionalism.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do have a great deal of confidence. Is there something wrong with that? I also believe that I'm an exceptional human being. Is it safe to assume that you disagree?

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry that all 19 year olds bore you your majesty.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice reading comprehension there. I get bored of the typical college lifestyle. Study during the week, and get drunk during the weekends. Throw some sex in if you're lucky. There's more to life than this, and I'm experiencing it right now, and loving every second of it.

I have a few questions for you. Why do you think you can pinpoint the exact kind of human being I am based on a few posts on 2+2? Do you not understand that there are many different people on this planet? A large percent of them are gifted in one form or another. It could be athleticism, innate artistic ability, ravashing good looks, whatever. My gift is my intelligence. Why is this so hard for you to comprehend? Do you really refuse to believe that I'm significantly more intelligent than the average person? Actually, I believe if you took an IQ survery of most 2+2ers, you would find the average IQ here significantly higher than that of society. I have a suspicion that you don't understand why this would be true, but the answer is so obvious that I'm not going to even hint at it.

[ QUOTE ]
In sum:
You are young, lazy, and think that you are smarter than everyone else. Welcome to the club.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just absolutely floored by your ignorance. You know nothing about me, yet you make these wild assumptions. I love how I come off as the stubborn one who knows nothing when we're talking about myself. Do you really think you know more about myself than I do?

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess there's no way to prove to you that I am no lazy

[/ QUOTE ]

uh...what about this ginormous response you made

[AngryCola]

http://ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/misc16.jpg

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
It could be athleticism, innate artistic ability, ravashing good looks, whatever. My gift is my intelligence.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not spelling, though.

[slickpoppa]

You are right. I don't know you. My disclaimer at the beginning of my original post was genuine in that I did not intend my post to be directed at you personally. In my drunken state I thought it would be more interesting and fun to couch the debate in terms of a personal attack on you. The only reason I picked you is because you posted a list of 20 things that were easy to discuss. I basically intended to use you as a caricature of the typical drop out to poker pro poster. From reading your posts in the MTT forum I don't doubt your intelligence.

However, I do think that the implications of become a pro poker player are worth discussing (see www.rhymeswithjoker.com (http://www.rhymeswithjoker.com) for the story of a typical lost soul). Unfortunately I have created a flame war instead. Oh well, that's the internet for you.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It could be athleticism, innate artistic ability, ravashing good looks, whatever. My gift is my intelligence.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not spelling, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you think that's a bit of a nitpick on an otherwise great response?

Eh, maybe you were just kidding around.

[lapoker17]

That's what I'm talking about.

[lastchance]

There are many reasons why you shouldn't do things while drunk.

Trying to make a long, smart post is one of them.

[ctide]

[ QUOTE ]
There are many reasons why you shouldn't do things while drunk.

Trying to make a long, smart post is one of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is also a reason.

[morgant]

you nitwit. make a personal attack of this magnitude then hide behind the excuse of alcohol. alcohol usually effects people in two ways, happy giddy, or angry drunk unlocking inner demons/insecurities that one relies on alcohol to get in touch with...........i think its pretty evident in your case

[hoyaboy1]

If you can't get good grades without much effort than you aren't as smart as you think, or simply suck at writing.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
If you can't get good grades without much effort than you aren't as smart as you think, or simply suck at writing.

[/ QUOTE ]

You obviously missed all of his post.
Either that, or you just dont speak English.

[hoyaboy1]

If he was getting good grades while only putting in minimal effort, he'd stick it out. But he's getting bad grades. Now, maybe thats because he simply doesn't care at all and doesn't do assignments, but a decent GPA is easily attainable with 3-4 hours of work a week.

[morgant]

"You obviously missed all of his post.
Either that, or you just dont speak English."

[hoyaboy1]

Once again, I believe he only thinks he shouldn't stick it out in school because he hasn't tried/figured out how to get good grades without really trying. The rest is rationalization.

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
If you can't get good grades without much effort than you aren't as smart as you think, or simply suck at writing.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm capable of getting good grades w/ little effort. I love how people read my posts, find one miniscule possibility of a flaw in my theory, and automatically assume it's true. Nice try.

[hoyaboy1]

If you can get good grades with little effort and aren't a loser who never goes out, you should finish school.

[emil3000]

[ QUOTE ]
If you can get good grades with little effort and aren't a loser who never goes out, you should finish school.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ridiculous unfounded statement.

[Zoltri]

Why even bother man.
People will learn the hard way.

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
you nitwit. make a personal attack of this magnitude then hide behind the excuse of alcohol. alcohol usually effects people in two ways, happy giddy, or angry drunk unlocking inner demons/insecurities that one relies on alcohol to get in touch with...........i think its pretty evident in your case

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh give me a break. Please tell me what insecurity is revealed by my post. My closet ZeeJustin insecurity? If you must know, I was not angry when I wrote my post. I was actually having a pretty good time. This was an OOT post for christs sake. I don't really take anything that I write in here that seriously.

I will say this one last time and people can choose to believe it or not: My post was NOT intended to be a personal attack. Seriously, I don't even know enough about ZJ to care to make a personal attack on him. All I really now about him is that he makes good posts in the MTT forum and makes a lot of money playing poker. My post was directed at aspiring poker pros in general with ZJ's name insterted. Some of my comments are valid to those people in general, even if they do not apply to ZJ in particular. I am aware of ZJ's poker abilities and realize that he is intelligence is much higher than the typical college dropout. But for every ZJ there are probably about 10 dropouts who think that they are as smart as him and are just looking for an easy way out. While ZJ probably could make 100K at will, most dropouts cannot and will not. By being really sarcastic and saying things like "justin needs his sleepy weepy", "you majesty," and "Do you care to elaborate on this, or are you letting others elaborate?" I was attempting to use the rhetorical device of reduction to absurdity. Obviously that did not work out as I planned. Mea culpa.

So again, I apologize for my comments that could be intepreted as a personal attack. I have no ill will towards ZJ at all. Please refrain from proverbially crucifying me, because you know as little about me as I know about ZJ.

[Tosh]

I can't presume to know the true feelings behind your post but it does come across as very aggressive, ignorant and offensive. Call it friendly banter if you wish but I doubt you'd take it lightly if the roles were reversed.

[partygirluk]

Stick to Sup Bro.

I think ZJ comes across as extremely well rounded. I felt pressured by society into going to university, because it was the thing to do. I got second in my year whilst going to less than 1/3 of the lectures, and doing bugger all work at home. I regret my decision to go to college. Sure I got an amazing degree out of it, but this is just a piece of paper. If I could turn back time I would have preferred to have spent the 3 years as an entrepeneur, studying what really interested me, rather than learning to pass exams, meet deadlines etc.

For most of the people at the university, they got exactly what they wanted to out of it. People are different. Justin is 19. his goals in life will change over the next few years. But he has left all doors open. He can spend the next few years doing what he likes, and earn a nice amount of money. Then, when he is 25 he can choose to change careers if he wants. You come across as jealous and bitter at his poker success.

[Voltron87]

ZJ I can understand why Slickpoppa and others (including myself) think your statement was a little ridiculous. Your whole "I can replace a college education on my own" statement is ridiculous. I'm sure you're a smart kid, but you can't. Maybe in some aspects, but on the whole this statement is nuts. And I call bullshit on the 100K statement. From everything you've said you would hate being a masseuse, so I don't think you really would like to spend the rest of your life doing something like that.

The other part of your post which miffed people was the "I'm really intelligent, I'm so mature, as opposed to other 19 year olds who are immature and stupid". A lot of people feel this way. I feel this way a lot of the time. But in the future, don't go around talking about it and not expect to be criticized for it. It's pretty easy to see why.

Saying "I also believe that I'm an exceptional human being." is a pretty pretentious statement and does not reflect well on you. Your posts also reek of arrogance, you should cut down on that if you want people to not react negatively.

In whole, I've never met you, you might be a really intelligent kid who has a real plan and knows what he is doing. But you might also be a talented poker player who is really lazy and now thinks he is the smartest person ever and is too cool for mainstream "society" and all that bullshit, you know what I mean. I don't know which it is, I've never met you. I'm not judging you in this post, I'm just commenting.

[partygirluk]

What is wrong with Zee thinking he is exceptionally intelligent? And if he thinks that, he has every right to bring it up in a post like this. Nothing wrong with immodesty IMHO.

[Zoltri]

The kid is 19 for christ sake.
He will take his lumps along the way just like we all did. I am sure this kid is no exception...and I dont care how good of a poker player he thinks he is.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
What is wrong with Zee thinking he is exceptionally intelligent? And if he thinks that, he has every right to bring it up in a post like this. Nothing wrong with immodesty IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is wrong with immodesty? A lot. There are things I believe about myself which are immodest, but I don't run around telling them to everyone because it would not reflect well on me, and many parts of ZJ's posts do not reflect well on him. (The whole "I am an exceptional human being")

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
My "job" is not what defines me. The way I live my day to day life and conduct myself around others is what I take pride in. Would you rather I (or ZJ, whatever) work a 9 to 5 down at Kinko's?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't pretend my current occupation is noble by any means, but I also don't need that to define me as a person. If you do, then that's fine and there's nothing wrong with that

[/ QUOTE ]


Well said.

I would go on to say that there are MANY people who work a variety of jobs (kinko's, fast-food, BJ dealer, pencil-pusher in large corporation, etc etc) who could care less about the knowledge that they are somehow 'contributing' to help society run better.

They are there to make a pay-check. If the company profits or not who cares.
they are actually contributing to society by getting someone their stationary or quarter-pounder or whatever but that's hardly their motivation. They need a pay-check.


In contrast, my GF is a nurse at a hospital and effects people's lives EVERY day at work. She takes great pride in the fact that she really is helping people.
But it still has to be enjoyable. The management at her current place is so sucky that she's going to jump ship and work at a different hospital.

So...for her...just knowing that she is 'helping people' isn't enough.

A job can still make you feel miserable and worthless even if you are contributing to society.
You need more from your occupation than just 'contributing to society'. Most people work in order to pay the bills and/or enjoy what they do.

If your contributions to society on the job are SO important because you just don't have much else going on in your life then the problem isn't with your job (although that could be a problem too), it's with the rest of your life.

[sam h]

[ QUOTE ]
7. I am intelligent enough to teach myself anything that I could learn in school to myself, via a "a buck fifty in late charges at the public library".


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a fairly common sentiment for very naive 19-year-olds. Just this comment alone should make one skeptical about the maturity that ZJ claims to have later.

[ QUOTE ]
10. I am intelligent enough that without poker, I could find multiple ways to make > $100,000 per year, none of which require a diploma.

[/ QUOTE ]

ZJ misses the point here because, as a 19-year-old, he understandably has zero experience in the real world. The problem is that many people have the intelligence to make money in unconventional ways, but that doing so successfully is far from assured. I have seen some of the best business plans, designed and executed by very smart people, bomb because of unexpected contingencies. Getting a degree is a good safety net.

[ QUOTE ]
12. I have matured far faster than I should have, and typical 19 year olds sometimes bore me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only ZJ can say whether 19-year-olds bore him, but from this list of reasons I would rate his level of maturity - conceptualized more as general worldliness - as about as low as one might expect from a typical 19-year-old.

[Zoltri]

Good post Sam.

[Voltron87]

vnh sam h.

[partygirluk]

Good post. But, Justin is 19. He has plenty of time to make $ from poker and then re-evaluate life. He will feel differently about life in 3 years time. In the mean time, he is doing what he loves, making lots of money, not harming anybody, so what is the problem?

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
Good post. But, Justin is 19. He has plenty of time to make $ from poker and then re-evaluate life. He will feel differently about life in 3 years time. In the mean time, he is doing what he loves, making lots of money, not harming anybody, so what is the problem?

[/ QUOTE ]

His attitude?

[partygirluk]

He is 19, he think he is great, he says what he thinks, he thinks he can make it in life all by himself, he does what he thinks..... time will tell.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
He is 19, he think he is great, he says what he thinks, he thinks he can make it in life all by himself, he does what he thinks..... time will tell.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

[sam h]

I agree with you partygirl. I didn't say he shouldn't take time off of school or that there was a big problem. I took a year in the middle of college and it turned out to be one of the best decisions I have ever made.

[adios]

1. I currently have very little motivation to receive good grades.

I think your point is in this thread that lacking motivation to receive good grades does not mean a lack of motivation to learn. I think that is an excellent point btw.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]

As I've said before, the degree is meaningless given my current goals in life. Maybe you can't comprehend this, but I don't want the same things in life that 99% of the population works their ass off for.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its funny that people can't accept this. I mean seriously people, if you have problems with what ZJ is doing, just read that a few times and then STFU

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
7. I am intelligent enough to teach myself anything that I could learn in school to myself, via a "a buck fifty in late charges at the public library".



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This is a fairly common sentiment for very naive 19-year-olds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really hate bringing this up, and I tried to avoid it until now, but you people won't take my word for anything. I'm not going to divulge the exact numbers, since they are pretty irrelevent, but I have 140+ IQ scores and 1450+ SAT scores to confirm my statemets RE intelligence.

[ QUOTE ]
ZJ misses the point here because, as a 19-year-old, he understandably has zero experience in the real world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless your definition of the real world is "the job market", this statement is far off. It's easy to assume that since I'm 19, I don't understand the value of money, I don't know what it's like to pay bills, and I don't know how to handle a relationship properly, but none of these are true. I guess this depends on your defintion of the real world, but I can handle myself just fine.

[ QUOTE ]
12. I have matured far faster than I should have,

[/ QUOTE ]

This has been questioned a lot, so I guess I need to back it up. I started playing Magic at a young age, and by the time I was 13, I was better than everyone my age. I had to play with people as good as me in order to get better, so the people I regularly played with were on average a good 5 years older than me. It doesn't take much more than 15 hours / week of this to influence me. I've also learned a lot about the "real world" second hand. A lot of people question the fact that at age 14 I can have friends that are 30+, and to be honost, I can't really explain how this is likely without explaining the social aspect of magic. Again, you'll just have to accept the possibility that I have a better grasp on my life than you.

[Dominic]

[ QUOTE ]

As I've said before, the degree is meaningless given my current goals in life. Maybe you can't comprehend this, but I don't want the same things in life that 99% of the population works their ass off for. A sweet job at the bottom of the promotion ladder is MEANINGLESS to me.



[/ QUOTE ]


Zee....with all due respect...I understand completely where you're coming from, as I felt the same way you do when I was 19 - college was a bore and a waste of time. However, think of it in poker terms - whats the EV of getting a degree and what's the EV of not getting one, over the long term?

My point is, goals and desires change. You will change. You have no idea what you will be doing or what you will want to be doing twenty years from now.

I know, I know, you can "always go back to school" if need be, right?

Well, that's doubtful. Real life has a tendency to intrude, once you drop out. You know, rent, mortgage, marriage, children....hell, just paying for yourself is expensive these days....who can afford to go back to school?

All in all, I don't know you from Adam, and your decision to drop out may be the best choice for you. But I hope you reconsider and realize that even though you are extremely intelligent, you are still young, not very experienced in the real world and might not know everything you need to quite yet. One of them being: it's better to have the degree and not need it, than need the degree and not have it.

[Dominic]

Zee, really now....

I blame society - the whole "everybody is special in their own way" BS. If everyone is special than NO ONE is special, right?

Well, guess what? Get over yourself, Sparky. You're NOT special. Only special people are special.

You want to drop out? Do it. Why make excuses or justifications to us?

[B Dids]

[ QUOTE ]

I think ZJ comes across as extremely well rounded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh.

With the caveats that

A- I think ZJ probably made the right choice for himself.

B- That the notion that everybody who's smart should go to college is silly.

C- slickpoppa's post was horrible. Diablo made the best response to ZJ's post in the original thread.

In my limited online interaction with ZJ he's not well rounded in the least. I think a lot of his initial post was pretty silly, and simply the result of still being a kid. What ZJ risks losing by dropping out of school isn't the book learning, it's the social aspect and learning how to relate to people without coming off as somebody with a out of control ego.

The best way to get that kind of socialization is in college, if only because you're surrounded by people to learn from. Nothing wrong with dropping out of school, but if it's to spend all day playing poker online (and when you're not playing poker online, hanging out with poker players) it's going to handicap you at some point.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
I really hate bringing this up, and I tried to avoid it until now, but you people won't take my word for anything. I'm not going to divulge the exact numbers, since they are pretty irrelevent, but I have 140+ IQ scores and 1450+ SAT scores to confirm my statemets RE intelligence.

----------------------------

Again, you'll just have to accept the possibility that I have a better grasp on my life than you.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is what makes people think you're immature.......

[sam h]

ZJ,

First off, I don't think its a bad idea for you to take time off school as is clear from some of my other posts in this thread.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to divulge the exact numbers, since they are pretty irrelevent, but I have 140+ IQ scores and 1450+ SAT scores to confirm my statemets RE intelligence.


[/ QUOTE ]

I have only taken "unofficial" IQ tests but am basically in the same ballpark. As you pointed out elsewhere, this level of aptitude on tests is probably not that uncommon on 2+2. What I was trying to point out here, however, is that this kind of intelligence in no way makes one able to master anything as an autodidact. If your reference point for learning basically amounts to freshman lecture classes, then it will probably appear this way to you. But the older you get, and especially the more you are exposed to how complex the social and natural worlds are, the more it will become clear that if you want to seriously learn about these phenomena, doing so at the library would be basically a hopeless endeavor. Maybe you don't want to do that kind of intellectual work, and that's fine. But don't kid yourself by thinking that you could do it alone.

[ QUOTE ]
It's easy to assume that since I'm 19, I don't understand the value of money, I don't know what it's like to pay bills, and I don't know how to handle a relationship properly, but none of these are true.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Zero experience" was obviously hyperbole. The subject of my remark was your claim to be able to make 100K+ in a variety of endeavors without a degree. In that context, "real world experience" amounts to a lot more than being able to handle money, pay your bills, and manage relationships. I'm talking about actually doing things in the business world, having friends who have started businesses, trying to raise money, dealing with lawyers, taking meetings, etc. I assumed that your plans for making 100K+ would involve some kind of personal enterprise, but maybe I was wrong.

[ QUOTE ]
This has been questioned a lot, so I guess I need to back it up. I started playing Magic at a young age, and by the time I was 13, I was better than everyone my age. I had to play with people as good as me in order to get better, so the people I regularly played with were on average a good 5 years older than me. It doesn't take much more than 15 hours / week of this to influence me. I've also learned a lot about the "real world" second hand. A lot of people question the fact that at age 14 I can have friends that are 30+, and to be honost, I can't really explain how this is likely without explaining the social aspect of magic. Again, you'll just have to accept the possibility that I have a better grasp on my life than you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am only trying to point out that you are 19-years-old and there is only a certain amount of practical wisdom that people are going to have at that age, no matter how smart they are. If you have hung out with a lot of older people, you will have been exposed to some things that might make you more mature. But a lot of maturity is only accrued through trial and error. I'm not trying to patronize you by saying this. It's just the facts.

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
This is what makes people think you're immature.......

[/ QUOTE ]

There have been direct attacks on my intelligence from people that have no clue who I am. If you can think of a better way to try and prove them otherwise, I would like to hear it. They clearly haven't read many of the 2000 posts I have made on this forum that could perhaps give some insight into who I am.

Honestly, I don't find this to be any indication of maturity. Modesty sure, but I never claimed to have much of that.

[David04]

I think I'm gonna have to agee with Justin here. Why should he be wasting time and money at college, if he doesn't want to be there? No one knows for sure when the online poker craze will end, it may be next year, it may be 10 years from now. Whenever it does end, I think that someone as smart as Justin will be able to find another way to make good money, doing something he wants to do.

Justin, you don't have to listen to these tools. Drop out of school if you want to. I say go for it.

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm talking about actually doing things in the business world, having friends who have started businesses, trying to raise money, dealing with lawyers, taking meetings, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have little interest in the business world.
I do have multiple friends that own at least 1 business.
You are right that I don't have experience raising money. I don't find this to be a big deal at all.
I've had to deal with lawyers on several occassions, and I also have a few friends that are lawyers.
As for taking meetings, I've had my share of small unimportant ones, but you are right that I've never had one dealing with a business venture or something similar.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is what makes people think you're immature.......

[/ QUOTE ]

There have been direct attacks on my intelligence from people that have no clue who I am. If you can think of a better way to try and prove them otherwise, I would like to hear it. They clearly haven't read many of the 2000 posts I have made on this forum that could perhaps give some insight into who I am.

Honestly, I don't find this to be any indication of maturity. Modesty sure, but I never claimed to have much of that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe just ignore some internet poster who attacks your intelligence for no reason?

[pshreck]

This is another very good post in this thread.

We are jumping on ZJ a lot, but he caught a case of the "internet forum I can post whatever" syndrom that some people get. He has these high feelings and thoughts about himself, and it is tough to be able to express these things with out any real success. ZJ is probably a little frustrated that he is unable to become a huge success yet at something (possibly because of his age, possibly because of other things). This post isn't a 'cry for help' and it doesn't mean he is an ego-inflated jerk. He had to get some things off his chest that aren't acceptable to say in any other place than the internet, where you will never have to deal with 99% of the people that will read it.

The only things I really cringed at while reading his post, are his utter lack of respect for experience, or wisdom I guess. You really have to understand that intelligence (and Im sure you are very intelligent) can only go so far, and that the rest comes from experiencing life... not skipping over everything, especially some of the tougher parts.

I think he will experience life in his own way, and it will be correct for him no matter what he chooses. Forums can be great for raw honesty, but sometimes this honesty doesn't have much of a place to be heard.

[partygirluk]

[ QUOTE ]
"The best way to get that kind of socialization is in college"

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I certainly met a wide cross-section of people at uni, and that has benefited me. But most of them had very little in common with me. My social life mainly consisted of my bridge playing friends who were much older, and mainly were PhDs. It is very important the Justin has social interaction. Spending all his time playing online poker would not be good for him. But he says he is good at balancing his social life and poker, and this is hopefully true.

[MelchyBeau]

[ QUOTE ]

Again, college is for the masses. Most people are incapable of learning for themselves. I am not. If I mimicked your standard A student, I wouldn't learn much more at all, and I would spend maybe as much as 10x as much time as I need to to learn that material.


[/ QUOTE ]

I just wanted to make a comment on this statement. I spent 4 years in college studying physics. I learned alot of crap on my own. However, with science college is a necessary thing. Most people can't afford to have labs set up in thier house, whether they be chemistry or physics. I spent 2 years teaching myself how to use the electronics in the physics lab. Besides, professors can't teach.

I'm sure you didn't become good at poker by just reading books. You had to play alot. Experience is a great teacher. The university provides this for many students majoring in sciences and engineering.


This was not a post in dissing your job. College would probably be pretty useless if this is what you want to do. I enjoy physics. getting my degree (and eventually my graduate degrees) was necessary.

Melch

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
He had to get some things off his chest

[/ QUOTE ]

This all started because I thought Tyler Durden said some very ignorant things about people in similar situations to my own. People keep saying that I have to experience things for myself before I can understand them. These same people claim to understand my life without experiencing it. The hypocrisy is absurd.

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He had to get some things off his chest

[/ QUOTE ]

This all started because I thought Tyler Durden said some very ignorant things about people in similar situations to my own.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know... it seemed to be a spark for what you really wanted to say, but might have been holding back on.

[sin808]

awesome....simply awesome

[Ulysses]

I largely agree w/ what sam h, Dids, hoyaboy and others had to say in this thread. Zee, a lot of what you wrote is not nearly as unique as you might think - tons of 19-year-olds have similar feelings. But as a few have pointed out, the best way for you to find out if you're as smart as you think you are and know as much as you think you do is to just go ahead and give it a shot doing what you think is the best.

I will make one comment that nobody has touched on, though. You comment that you basically get bored with doing mundane things and get bored with typical 19-year-olds, implying that ideally you need to find intellectually stimulating and creative work interacting with and being intellectually challenged by others. It is somewhat hard for me to reconcile this with being a pro poker player. In fact, if you are as smart as you think you are, I think being a pro poker player might be a horrible life choice for you.

[snowbank]

If you go to a banker, investor, employer, etc. and he has the choice between a University of Maryland (they have a pretty good basketball team, right?) dropout and Harvard MBA, who is he going to pick?

If you go to an investor, trying to start a business, they care about your business plan. If you can make money they invest, if you can't they don't.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
You are right that I don't have experience raising money. I don't find this to be a big deal at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you mean you don't find this to be a big deal at all because you have no interest in launching any business that requires significant capital to start, that is a perfectly fair statement.

If you mean raising money is no big deal at all, that's a very silly statement. I've raised over $50 million for a handful of businesses and raising money is often just about the hardest thing in the world.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
If you go to a banker, investor, employer, etc. and he has the choice between a University of Maryland (they have a pretty good basketball team, right?) dropout and Harvard MBA, who is he going to pick?

If you go to an investor, trying to start a business, they care about your business plan. If you can make money they invest, if you can't they don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an incredibly naive outlook and almost completely wrong. They care very much about things other than the business plan. In fact, the business plan is often one of the least important factors in the investment decision.

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
If you mean you don't find this to be a big deal at all because you have no interest in launching any business that requires significant capital to start, that is a perfectly fair statement.

If you mean raising money is no big deal at all, that's a very silly statement. I've raised over $50 million for a handful of businesses and raising money is often just about the hardest thing in the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

The former. I certainly would have an extremely tough time raising $50m to start a business.

[sam h]

[ QUOTE ]
You comment that you basically get bored with doing mundane things and get bored with typical 19-year-olds, implying that ideally you need to find intellectually stimulating and creative work interacting with and being intellectually challenged by others. It is somewhat hard for me to reconcile this with being a pro poker player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup.

[woodguy]

Agreed.

As someone who had raised $$$ to start a business, helped raise $$$ for other business, and am in the process of starting up another one, its people, not the idea, that make the business work.

An axiom that you will hear from many venture capitalists is:
"I'd rather invest money with "A" people and a "B" idea than "B" people with an "A" idea"

Regards,
Woodguy

[Wayfare]

I would guess that if you had worked harder in high school and not ended up at UMD, you wouldn't find college boring. At UMD you were probably smarter than 90% of the kids there. If you had gone to a school where everyone was just as smart or smarter, as talented or more talented, and just as interesting as you, you might have stuck around.

But w/e, follow your dreams as a college dropout gambler. You have already said that you don't care about what 99% of people care about, so no one else can argue with you.

[IndieMatty]

I think I have read all of this. ZJ, the only comment I have (if you care) is, many of us felt like you and are on the same level of intelligence to some degree. At 19 you don't know what you want from life. At 25 you don't know what you want from life. Most men at 30...ditto.

It's always good to have options. College keeps all those options open. It's actually pretty simple. Every older guy on here will tell you they felt the same way as you do (and luckily you have awesome options) many of us did not.
Good luck in your endeavors.

-Matt

[MLG]

[ QUOTE ]
I would guess that if you had worked harder in high school and not ended up at UMD, you wouldn't find college boring.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is just rediculous. I did well in HS, and am currently finishing my senior year at a very competitive school. I also find college boring. I thought maybe it was the big fish little pond problem, so I applied for the most competitive program my school had. I was clearly not smarter than the vast majority of students in this program. I was still bored. University (and to some degree all of school) learning is just not designed for some people. I don't think that that is really the important issue. The issue is whether it is more beneficial to finish school despite this dislike. I think it is, but ultimately everybody has to make their own decision.

[DCJ311]

It is evident within this thread that people in general have radically different outlooks on life. Justin's personality falls into a category somewhere in the category of 'contrarian', meaning he does not necessarily conform to the ideals set forth by most public institutions, particularly society. Interestingly enough, this type of personality tends to do fairly well in the field of +EV gambling.

The vast majority of people believe that a degree from a university is basically the 'only' safe way to go through one's adolescant period, basically using the "At least you have something to fall back on" reasoning. The other conception is that college also gives people the opportunity to build social ties, and the opportunity to learn how to learn.

However, there are many people such as Justin who went through high school and college who probably made above average or good grades, good SAT scores, etc. who just hated the experience. The misnomer here is that people like him are lazy or immature. If anything, I'd hypothesize that the reasoning for his dropping out of college is derived more from his genius intellect than his perceived laziness.

Collegiate life was intended to be a forum for free thinkers and creative minds, but the bottom line is that most of the people in universities are there to get a degree and go off into the job market. It is very rare that you will find THAT many opportunities for expressing your creativity in college, unless you are fortunate enough not to be spending the majority of the time in class or cramming for exams and big projects. This has the potential to 'burn out' a lot of the legitimate, free-thinking geniuses who go off to college and are frustrated by the linear environment that surrounds them.

As for the social life in college, it mostly consists of partying which includes drinking, smoking, and sex, which are not exactly overwhelmingly engaging mental activities. If you join a fraternity, you will receive more of the same. Most people can find other ways to spend their time constructively without compromosing their social lives, with or without college.

As for contributing to society, poker definitely does not do that, but it is not entirely that simple. I do not believe a basketball player does anything to contribute to society, and I find it really hard to believe that E*Trade (a medium for commissioned investment and monetary transactions) does anything productive for society that Pokerstars does not. If society didn't enjoy sports, there would be no televised NBA games and athletes wouldn't make millions of dollars. The corrolary is true: If people didn't enjoy poker, professional poker players wouldn't have a job. Saying that poker does nothing for society basically ignores the fact that there are tons of jobs that do absolutely zilch for society, or in fact detract from the well-being of society, such as someone who works for a tobacco or fast food company.

The point is this: If you are a person who does not feel the desire to be educated by a public or private institution, and you have outside opportunities which give you a way to have a nice livelihood while making a good living and not missing out on social opportunities, then what is the purpose of going to college?

Are you really suggesting that Justin spend 4 years going to college, boring himself out of his mind and not maximizing his intellectual abilities, all the while sinking himself into debt with student loans, just so he can get an entry level job where he will not be able to maximize his full potential? That's absurd to me.

Speaking from personal experience, I like his move a lot. I have spoken with him and he seems to be highly knowledgable about poker as well as game theory in general, as well as having enough mathematical understanding to not place his bankroll in jeopardy like a lot of brash young players do so frequently. He definitely has what it takes to succeed in poker as well as any form of +EV gambling IMO. So I'd lay odds that he becomes a millionaire in life before he goes broke, and there's very few people I'd say that of that I don't know all too well.

My personal experience in life is that I went off to college in Dallas when I was 17 (I am 22 now) on a full academic and chess (yes, chess) scholarship, and was immediately bored by the whole experience, just as I was miserably bored by high school. I had a few friends there as well as three cool roommates and I joined a fraternity immediately into my freshman year, so the social aspects of life were fine.

Then, in December of 2000, I started getting into sports betting, with the advice of a friend I made via a fantasy basketball forum. I started learning the math behind sports betting, and proceeded to turn about 5k I had saved in high school into about 40k within about 6 months. Of course, this buzz I received from 'gambling' caused me to lose even more interest in school, and after obtaining about 50 credits I eventually dropped out and conceded my scholarship after 3 years. However, I feel this was the best decision for me, even though practically everyone in the world disagreed, and that I was almost broke at one point. I attributed that to my own overconfidence, bad luck in hugely +EV spots, and of course, poor money management and the inability to diversify my investments well enough through other business opportunities. I was able to build up a bankroll again, and I went on to get booted from several online sports betting sites for beating them too consistently, and was even offered a job from several large companies online writing lines for their specific types of wagers.

After I dropped out, I was able to learn poker, and have done reasonably well at it. In fact, I enjoy it more than sports betting, since sports betting usually has no more than several important variables that you must consider, but poker (especially tournaments) have countless amounts at times. Being a strong chess player, I value the types of games where you can at all times understand the game situation to an extent and depth that your opponent/s will never in life be able to comprehend.

People say that it is easy to get burned out of poker, or that the fad will go away completely, but I don't know that this is true. Even if you are good at just grinding out a few BB/hr in a limit cash game, you can always have goals to shoot for, such as a WSOP bracelet, or a WPT title. I'm sure recreational and losing poker players have these dreams too. For me, I enjoy the fact that I am winning money based on my superior mind and abilities in the present, not because I spent four years inside a class room and two more kissing up to a boss. Right now I play poker, bet on sports, and teach chess to K-8 students, which I truly enjoy. I understand the math, I diversify my investments, and 'know' I can come out a winner based on everything I've done in the past several years, and I know who else will succeed at this and who will not.

If you 'get it' when it comes to these types of philosiphies on life, then you will be in Justin's boat on this and ready to enjoy the ride. If you don't, then you likely never will.

[7ontheline]

I don't have much to comment on regarding ZJ's maturity, life plan, etc. I agree with previous posters that in certain fields, such as science/engineering, a college education with lab experience and lectures is absolutely necessary. It doesn't sound like this is ZJ's plan, so fine.

My main point is that intelligence is fine, but not the only important thing in life and it is naive to think so. I went to a "gifted" high school when I was younger (yes, I was a nerd) and I met some of the smartest people there I have EVER known. I'm not talking about your typical gifted kids, I'm talking about some of the smartest people in the country. There were two guys who were selected as 2 of the top 24 math students in the country. 1 of them went to the International Math Olympiad in Turkey and won a gold medal. These guys were SCARY smart. I also have the high IQ and perfect SAT scores, and I was totally blown away by these people. One of them is now drifting in life, dropped out of grad school and jumping from job to job. I know that everyone is different; I'm just saying that the world doesn't often care how smart you are. Good luck with whatever you do - just don't assume you know everything already.

[daryn]

agreed, that was totally bogus. i did very well in high school, but i went to umass anyway. in fact that's the only school i applied to. money was a consideration, but also i knew some people going there. i just never had the desire to go to a big name college and overpay for my piece of paper.

[Zoltri]

[ QUOTE ]
It is evident within this thread that people in general have radically different outlooks on life. Justin's personality falls into a category somewhere in the category of 'contrarian', meaning he does not necessarily conform to the ideals set forth by most public institutions, particularly society. Interestingly enough, this type of personality tends to do fairly well in the field of +EV gambling.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong answer.
The fact is, at 19, we all thought we knew better.
I had the same attitude at his age and believe me there is not a day I dont regret it.

So yes, "I get it" and sadly one day he will too.

[IndieMatty]

what you said.

[spamuell]

The fact is, at 19, we all thought we knew better.

I'm 18 and pretty smart and I don't think I know better.

Does that mean I do think I know better?

[Zoltri]

[ QUOTE ]
The fact is, at 19, we all thought we knew better.

I'm 18 and pretty smart and I don't think I know better.

Does that mean I do think I know better?

[/ QUOTE ]
Huh? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[DCJ311]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is evident within this thread that people in general have radically different outlooks on life. Justin's personality falls into a category somewhere in the category of 'contrarian', meaning he does not necessarily conform to the ideals set forth by most public institutions, particularly society. Interestingly enough, this type of personality tends to do fairly well in the field of +EV gambling.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong answer.
The fact is, at 19, we all thought we knew better.
I had the same attitude at his age and believe me there is not a day I dont regret it.

So yes, "I get it" and sadly one day he will too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you didn't have what it takes to drop out of college!

I wouldn't lump your experiences in life with ZeeJustin's and mine, I'm sure they were much different. We were both backed with legitimate bankrolls when we dropped out of college, and were involved in highly +EV money making activities with other outs to fall back on. It is not we are making ill-informed decisions here.

[Zeno]

[ QUOTE ]
I will make one comment that nobody has touched on, though. You comment that you basically get bored with doing mundane things and get bored with typical 19-year-olds, implying that ideally you need to find intellectually stimulating and creative work interacting with and being intellectually challenged by others. It is somewhat hard for me to reconcile this with being a pro poker player. In fact, if you are as smart as you think you are, I think being a pro poker player might be a horrible life choice for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would add to this that some remarkably intelligent people end up leading a somewhat aimless and wayward life, a sort of discontinuous fretting away of existence, and end up having a life mostly devoid of reaching the potential they have the inherent talents for.

In addition, many people with 'less intelligence' do better in achieving aspirations than ‘more intelligent’ people, who sometimes recklessly assume that much in life is within easy reach. For people with less talent, this is usually done by a combination of; a diligent work ethic; a realistic recognition of their own limitations, but employing and teaming with others, some of higher caliber; and having an inherent, almost obsessive, inner drive to reach set goals.

[ QUOTE ]
I think being a pro poker player might be a horrible life choice for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is worth repeating. About four years ago, I had dinner with a number of older poker pros, some old time and some younger pot and no-limit players. It was most revealing and I came to some conclusions after this event (actually this was the ‘straw’, I had been mulling things over in my mind for sometime). There are exceptions (many in the 2+2 family, let's use Ray Zee for example) but in the main, playing poker for a living is not a wise lifelong choice for the majority of people that actually do it, in my opinion. The details of this conclusion are burdensome and I will not go into. I could supply them though, if asked, along with a fee of five thousand dollars.

With all that said, however; I think Justin should play poker for a living.

-Zeno

[Zoltri]

At 19, how much money could he possibly have?
Or are we talking about Daddy's money here?

[DCJ311]

From what I understand, Justin plays over 8 tables at once so I'm sure he easily puts about $2000-3000 into action per hour (with rakeback). If he returns even 10% of that total investment per hour, well, you can probably do the math.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
At 19, how much money could he possibly have?
Or are we talking about Daddy's money here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Justin has played thousands of hours of multi-table online poker in the last year or two. He has done very well playing many thousands of single table tournaments and has also made a little money playing mult-table tournaments, live and online. So, no, he is not talking about Daddy's money.

[Zoltri]

[ QUOTE ]
From what I understand, Justin plays over 8 tables at once so I'm sure he easily puts about $2000-3000 into action per hour (with rakeback). If he returns even 10% of that total investment per hour, well, you can probably do the math.

[/ QUOTE ]
It always amazes me how the young mind works.
I posted this thought in another thread....if you and Justin are so smart, why dont you start your own online poker site?

The answer is painfully obvious, you wouldn't have a clue where to start.

[TimM]

Read all about him... (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_33/b3896121_mz070.htm)

[DCJ311]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
From what I understand, Justin plays over 8 tables at once so I'm sure he easily puts about $2000-3000 into action per hour (with rakeback). If he returns even 10% of that total investment per hour, well, you can probably do the math.

[/ QUOTE ]
It always amazes me how the young mind works.
I posted this thought in another thread....if you and Justin are so smart, why dont you start your own online poker site?

The answer is painfully obvious, you wouldn't have a clue where to start.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are clearly delusional and/or have a poor understanding of math, if you can't understand the concept of return on investment per hour. Do I have to start an online poker site to 'prove myself' to you on this? No thanks, and I don't see how this is relevant to your argument, if you even have one.

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
Wrong answer.
The fact is, at 19, we all thought we knew better.
I had the same attitude at his age and believe me there is not a day I dont regret it.

So yes, "I get it" and sadly one day he will too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not you. What don't you get about that? I'm a different person, with different skills, different interests, different hopes, different goals, differet assets, different motivations, different handicaps, and an extremely uncommon outlook on life.

I congratulate all of you on conforming to societies standards as you got older, but that doesn't happen to everyone. My views on this are so incredibly strong, that I can confidently say, I won't turn out the same as you.

[Zoltri]

I'd like to see things from your point of view, but I can't seem to get my head that far up your ass.

[Zoltri]

OK kid, do what you want.
I really dont give a sh it.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Ok, so what you are saying in 1-5 is that you are lazy. No one enjoys taking tests or doing homework

Bull Hockey. I love taking tests. Always have. Never felt one iota of stress over the SATs. Looked at as "game day." On the other hand, I always looked at term papers a crutch for those who didn't have my recall or the ability to think as fast as I could.

Besides, ZJ has the chops to make it as a player, or anything else he wants. He can always go back and get the degree later.

[ggbman]

[ QUOTE ]
http://ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/misc16.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL thats great

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
OK kid, do what you want.
I really dont give a sh it.

[/ QUOTE ]


zoltri, seems like you are trying your best to come off as a crotchety old man who is bitter of a young guy's success. i don't feel the need to divulge ZJ's bankroll, he can do that if he wants, but he has a lot of money, and it's from poker, not his "daddy".

do you really think it's hard to make big money playing online poker? i make around $150/hr avg and i'm sure ZJ spends way more time on his poker game than i do.

[Zoltri]

I am not bitter, far from it. Fact is, I was trying to help the kid. It was a waste of time and im sorry I got involved with it.

[daryn]

i doubt you are far from bitter when u say stuff like

"are we talking about daddy's money here?"

"whatever kid do what you want"



PS: GO PATS!

[Zoltri]

One more thing...for all the chest thumping 'I am the best' attitude that goes on this forum, why is it your $58k is the only significant score I have heard at 2+2.

The reaction of your win by many was curious to say the least.

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm calling bullsh*t on 7-8. If you are so eager to learn certain things, then why not do so with the guidance of someone who has devoted his whole life to the subject and knows a lot more about it than you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, college is for the masses. Most people are incapable of learning for themselves. I am not. If I mimicked your standard A student, I wouldn't learn much more at all, and I would spend maybe as much as 10x as much time as I need to to learn that material.


[/ QUOTE ]

ZJ - I certainly acknowledge that college isn't for everyone, and you're happier not going. Saying that makes you "lazy" etc is stupid...I'm on your side for nearly all of this discussion.

The only thing that's bothered me in this thread is this thought that "college is for those incapable of learning for themselves." I certainly acknowledge that school isn't for everyone, but you seem to be implying that it's for...dumb people. Your disrespect for academia makes me think you've never had a good teacher, or at least not one in a subject that particularly interested you. Think of it this way: sure, you can learn to play poker well from books and experience. But if you have a MWF 9am with Ray Zee, might you learn quicker? Or learn things you wouldn't otherwise pick up? I'm sure you've gained a fair amount from reading the forums and from discussing hands with your peers.

I'm certainly capable of learning for myself. That said, I've also realized that I can learn from others. I did my undergraduate work at a very small school full of very, very smart people and I'm much better off for having worked with them. Surrounding yourself with brilliant people will make you smarter, and the right school is a good way to do thtat.

That said, if I were at FSU and actually trying to learn something it'd take me about a week to drop out and find something better to do with my time.

[Eihli]

At least ZJ is modest.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
From what I understand, Justin plays over 8 tables at once so I'm sure he easily puts about $2000-3000 into action per hour (with rakeback). If he returns even 10% of that total investment per hour, well, you can probably do the math.

[/ QUOTE ]
It always amazes me how the young mind works.
I posted this thought in another thread....if you and Justin are so smart, why dont you start your own online poker site?

The answer is painfully obvious, you wouldn't have a clue where to start.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are clearly delusional and/or have a poor understanding of math, if you can't understand the concept of return on investment per hour. Do I have to start an online poker site to 'prove myself' to you on this? No thanks, and I don't see how this is relevant to your argument, if you even have one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you're a tourney, not ring game, player?

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
One more thing...for all the chest thumping 'I am the best' attitude that goes on this forum, why is it your $58k is the only significant score I have heard at 2+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you don't follow the poker forums? There are many players here who have won hundreds of thousands or more in either tourneys or ring games in the last year.

[ QUOTE ]
The reaction of your win by many was curious to say the least.

[/ QUOTE ]

People like daryn. Daryn is a relatively young relatively low-limit player. He wins $58k and people think it is awesome and congratulate him. What is curious?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Just remember, Z, Bill Gates dropped out of college.

And while he was there, what did he do? Play poker, of course.

[Joey Knish]

You're a little punk.

Playing poker is very honorable. I play so that my kids can eat. I'm not looking to fulfill pipe dreams of playing in the World Series of Poker on ESPN.

ZJ is welcome in that soft seat in Queens anytime.

Did I mention that you're a little punk?

[JoeC]

YES! Exactly what this thread needed.

[Zoltri]

[ QUOTE ]
Just remember, Z, Bill Gates dropped out of college.

And while he was there, what did he do? Play poker, of course.

[/ QUOTE ]
Unbelievable.


___________________

I troll the poker forums all the time Diablo. I guess I missed some of the apparent wins.
This is what I meant by reaction.
LINK (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=1648060&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;sb=5&amp; o=&amp;fpart=1&amp;vc=1)
BTW, I congratulated Daryn as well.

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
7. I am intelligent enough to teach myself anything that I could learn in school to myself, via a "a buck fifty in late charges at the public library".



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This is a fairly common sentiment for very naive 19-year-olds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really hate bringing this up, and I tried to avoid it until now, but you people won't take my word for anything. I'm not going to divulge the exact numbers, since they are pretty irrelevent, but I have 140+ IQ scores and 1450+ SAT scores to confirm my statemets RE intelligence.

[/ QUOTE ]

(This should be read as spoken without the condescending tone of the poster to whom ZJ replied.)

As I discussed some in my other post in this thread, being smart doesn't mean you can supplant a good college education with the library. (The "good" is important there.) ZJ - you're clearly intelligent. If nothing else, your poker success wouldn't be possible without you being fairly bright. But I'd encourage you to rid yourself of the mindset that you couldn't have learned anything at college.

(Yes, the scores are irrelevant. But, my IQ's certainly on par with yours, my SATs can't have been worse than yours, and I learned a lot in college. Not because I was inexperienced going in, but because there's a lot to be gained from time with other intelligent people.) Now, you will meet intelligent people in the "real world". But I'm not sure I'll ever find a situation with quite so many brilliant people as I had in college. I'm really curious as to what you would have thought of a school where you weren't particularly smarter than the rest of the students. if you don't mind my asking, where'd you go?

edit - saw you went to UMD. There are certainly schools that would challenge you more, but for you to benefit from those you'd have had to find one that challenged you in working towards something you truly cared about. It doesn't sound like that was an option.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
One more thing...for all the chest thumping 'I am the best' attitude that goes on this forum, why is it your $58k is the only significant score I have heard at 2+2.

The reaction of your win by many was curious to say the least.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, as Diabo pointed out, it's clearly because you don't read. Given your other posts in this thread, that point is painfully obvious anyway.

Other reasons: the majority of all players on this site play cash games, or sng tournaments, to make their money. Those games at the limit that most people play, don't have the "significant scores" that you are talking about. They do, however, have huge numbers associated with them over time.

Before I continue, I'd like to point out that there is very little "I am the best in the world, chest thumping stuff" that goes on at this forum.

So, a brief list of stuff that's happened in the last year that I can come up with off the top of my head:

Daryn's 58k
Bernie's jackpot
DonButtons million gauranteed final table
Raymer's win
Gift of Gab &gt;$100k on the tables at once
GoT's stats
gonores' and schneids' 60k in 60 days, failures and secret successes
MLG hit up a big stars tournament, and I think hit Aruba pretty hard
Someone else, blanking on name, hit a UB tournament for &gt;$100k if I'm correct
Several players killing the 15/30 party game for 3BB/100
Everything Gigabet does
Tyler Durden gets 126th place in teh WSOP

And there's a big pile of other ones I'm sure. fnord_too (who I may be misspelling) won two party supers in 2 weeks, or 3 weeks. boedeker won a super a couple months back, etc.

The reason you don't know about these things is you read what you want to, then make blanket statements about the way the world is based on what you choose to remember.

My thoughts on this whole thread:

ZJ, you're clearly a bright guy. I really don't give a flying hoot about how smart, or any of that other crap. You're young, you've got some money, no one's going to stop you from going back to school later if that's what you want to do later. So f.uck it, be your own person, go and do what you want to. Clearly the haters aren't getting you down, but don't let them in the future either. There's always going to be people whose goals in life do not conform to the societal ideals, and those people don't necessarilly need to be constantly lectured by people who in general are pretty bitter sounding assholes. You don't seem like someone who will be crushed for life if you wind up failing at whatever it is you decide to do in the immediate future and then have to start again from the ground up. If you want to, drop out of school, but if I can offer any advice, it would be to have a plan of what you want to do, even if it is just playing poker, before you do leave school.

Best of luck to you ZJ,

citanul

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
If you mean raising money is no big deal at all, that's a very silly statement. I've raised over $50 million for a handful of businesses and raising money is often just about the hardest thing in the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Raising money sucks. I've worked for a few startups. The difference between the ones where I had to pitch to investors and the one where the (24-year-old) president's family owned the 3rd biggest yacht in the world was striking.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just remember, Z, Bill Gates dropped out of college.

And while he was there, what did he do? Play poker, of course.

[/ QUOTE ]
Unbelievable.


___________________

I troll the poker forums all the time Diablo. I guess I missed some of the apparent wins.
This is what I meant by reaction.
LINK (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=1648060&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;sb=5&amp; o=&amp;fpart=1&amp;vc=1)
BTW, I congratulated Daryn as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is apparent in italics? Do you not believe various people won in the events that they said they did?

People congratulate each other on big scores because this is a place where people get to be friends and like to cheer each other on and have fun together. Apparently not everyone is capable of participating in that.

That thread re: Daryn's 58k hit was clearly just for fun, and well, it is OOT, where people are going to have fun, apparently whether you like it or not.

citanul

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Good post. But, Justin is 19. He has plenty of time to make $ from poker and then re-evaluate life. He will feel differently about life in 3 years time. In the mean time, he is doing what he loves, making lots of money, not harming anybody, so what is the problem?

[/ QUOTE ]

His attitude?

[/ QUOTE ]

Given the initial post here I think his attitude is perfectly justified.

[Zoltri]

Take your condescending post and shove it up your ass. Dont ever respond to one of my posts again motherfvcker.

For all the your highlights you mentioned, how much money have people lost here. THAT WAS MY POINT!!!!

NOW FVCK OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing that's bothered me in this thread is this thought that "college is for those incapable of learning for themselves."

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I mispoke. I think college is an amazing thing for a very large percent of the population, both intelligent and otherwise.

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
At 19, how much money could he possibly have?

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot. Enough.

[partygirluk]

[ QUOTE ]





I congratulate all of you on conforming to societies standards as you got older, but that doesn't happen to everyone. My views on this are so incredibly strong, that I can confidently say, I won't turn out the same as you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Justin, your outlook on life will almost certainly radically alter over the next ten years.

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
I congratulate all of you on conforming to societies standards as you got older

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll chalk this up to you being annoyed at the jackassery of the post you were replying to. Still, I really don't like the way you phrased this. (I keep arguing in favor of higher education because I'm working on a PhD and seriously considering a life as a professor, and I don't like seeing the profession treated with such contempt.)

edit - saw this post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=1683262&amp;page=0&amp;view=c ollapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;vc=1). Seems we're all good.

[theBruiser500]

I don't understand why you guys went off on SlickPoppa's post, seemed reasonable to me. Daryn, I also just applied to UMass (kind of funny, at my HS everyone was very studious always focussing on getting into MIT, people normally applied to 7-11 colleges).

Diablo said what I was going to say, but basically my opinion is: I don't like it when people post there opinions in an authoritative matter, I think the best you can do if you are trying to help ZJ out is state your OPINIONS and own PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. Ultimately, if ZJ wants to try this life he needs to try it and see how it works, everybody is different.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Take your condescending post and shove it up your ass. Dont ever respond to one of my posts again motherfvcker.

For all the your highlights you mentioned, how much money have people lost here. THAT WAS MY POINT!!!!

NOW FVCK OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

You're a moron. If 2+2 is so bad, why are you here? By the way fu[/b]ck is spelled with a U and not a V.

[Zoltri]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll chalk this up to you being annoyed at the jackassery of the post you were replying to.

[/ QUOTE ]
Who let the morons into OOT today?
I am done with this useless thread. Time to watch the game.

[B Dids]

[ QUOTE ]
Take your condescending post and shove it up your ass. Dont ever respond to one of my posts again motherfvcker.

For all the your highlights you mentioned, how much money have people lost here. THAT WAS MY POINT!!!!

NOW FVCK OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow e-threats.

[Zoltri]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Take your condescending post and shove it up your ass. Dont ever respond to one of my posts again motherfvcker.

For all the your highlights you mentioned, how much money have people lost here. THAT WAS MY POINT!!!!

NOW FVCK OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

You're a moron. If 2+2 is so bad, why are you here? By the way fu[/b]ck is spelled with a U and not a V.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright. No problem.

[censored] OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zoltri]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Take your condescending post and shove it up your ass. Dont ever respond to one of my posts again motherfvcker.

For all the your highlights you mentioned, how much money have people lost here. THAT WAS MY POINT!!!!

NOW FVCK OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

You clearly showed him. And you are good at making points. If only ZJ were as smart as you, he might stand a fighting chance.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
[censored] OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, what was that? I didn't catch it.

[Zoltri]

I like you. People say I've got no taste, but I like you.

[sublime]

Who let the morons into OOT today?

hahahaha, now thats comedy!

[theBruiser500]

It's kind of lame that Zoltri has goaded you guys into giving him so many responses.

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
Daryn, I also just applied to UMass

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny, for some reason I thought you already went there. Where do you go now?

[Zoltri]

[ QUOTE ]
Who let the morons into OOT today?

hahahaha, now thats comedy!

[/ QUOTE ]
Where have you been Sublime?
I knew it was a matter of time before you chimed in with your stupid one liners.

[Zoltri]

[ QUOTE ]
It's kind of lame that Zoltri has goaded you guys into giving him so many responses.

[/ QUOTE ]
Really?
What does that make you a$$hole.

[B Dids]

http://www.alphalink.com.au/~anderson/gifjpg/hugs.gif

[sublime]

Where have you been Sublime?

woke up a little while ago.

I knew it was a matter of time before you chimed in with your stupid one liners.

if by stupid, you mean funny and right on the money then i thank you.

ps-
your coming off as a jackass in this thread. i understand where you are coming from (old school work values etc) but a lot of people (me included) just dont believe in that stuff.

[DCJ311]

[ QUOTE ]

I assume you're a tourney, not ring game, player?

[/ QUOTE ]

I mostly play $100-200 sit and go's or multi table tournaments. My statement was based on the knowledge that Justin plays a lot of $200 sit and go's.

[Zoltri]

I probably am acting foolish. I wish I didnt start with it.
Thanks Sublime for giving me a reality check but you know how wound up I get on this subject.

[thatpfunk]

Replying to general themse in this thread, no one in particular...

1) 85% of what I learned in college had nothing to do with academics
2) Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with how much money one makes. There are many people with below average intelligence who make a lot of money and many people who are very intelligent making not much money.

[sublime]

I probably am acting foolish. I wish I didnt start with it.

story of my life

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with how much money one makes.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's no correlation? Riiiiiggghhtt.

[partygirluk]

[ QUOTE ]

There are many people with below average intelligence who make a lot of money and many people who are very intelligent making not much money.

[/ QUOTE ]

True

[ QUOTE ]
2) Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with how much money one makes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true.

[morgant]

who won the WSOP last year /images/graemlins/confused.gif

there are countless big money winners and winning players on these forums, open your eyes.

[Pov]

Nine years ago I felt much like you if you substitute computers for poker. And I had a higher SAT score even before they "re-standardized" it. I'm not saying I'm smarter or I was more mature or whatever. I just want you to realize I was in a very similar boat with a very similar attitude. I dropped out and did very well for myself and I still am. I certainly didn't suffer for it.

However, a decade later I've discovered I was in fact just lazy in college. If you're as smart as you say, you can finish college in two years or so. Just cram it out of the way like whoring a good bonus and have it behind you. My .02 for the .01 it's worth. It is probably my only real regret in life. You may or may not end up feeling the same way and I strongly urge you to do what you feel you must. At the same time, don't let your zeal to point out how others won't believe your statements afflict you with the same condition in reverse. There are truths in nearly all points of view.

[theBruiser500]

"2) Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with how much money one makes. There are many people with below average intelligence who make a lot of money and many people who are very intelligent making not much money."

This is absolutely crazy.

[B Dids]

nevermind, already been done. I suck.

[Bluffoon]

When I was 18 I knew it all...

Now I don't know [censored].

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
2) Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with how much money one makes. There are many people with below average intelligence who make a lot of money and many people who are very intelligent making not much money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I have read a few, so this may be a big claim, but that has to be the most retarded post I've ever read on here.

[nongice626]

[ QUOTE ]
If you can get good grades with little effort and aren't a loser who never goes out, you should finish school.

[/ QUOTE ]

bill gates is such a dickhead. he never learned this lesson.

[nongice626]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2) Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with how much money one makes. There are many people with below average intelligence who make a lot of money and many people who are very intelligent making not much money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I have read a few, so this may be a big claim, but that has to be the most retarded post I've ever read on here.

[/ QUOTE ]

he used poor wording.

[nongice626]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you nitwit. make a personal attack of this magnitude then hide behind the excuse of alcohol. alcohol usually effects people in two ways, happy giddy, or angry drunk unlocking inner demons/insecurities that one relies on alcohol to get in touch with...........i think its pretty evident in your case

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh give me a break. Please tell me what insecurity is revealed by my post. My closet ZeeJustin insecurity? If you must know, I was not angry when I wrote my post. I was actually having a pretty good time. This was an OOT post for christs sake. I don't really take anything that I write in here that seriously.



[/ QUOTE ]

arent you that ashole who wanted to see the video published illegally of the girl being raped.

[nongice626]

[ QUOTE ]
The kid is 19 for christ sake.
He will take his lumps along the way just like we all did. I am sure this kid is no exception...and I dont care how good of a poker player he thinks he is.

[/ QUOTE ]

ive got a nasty lump from walking down the wrong alley here in bangkok, and my thai girlfriend might be pregnant, and im only 18.

i guess im failing life?

or maybe im just living it.

[Zoltri]

Your first guess was right.

[Matt Flynn]

Zee,

I realize this will likely get lost in the thread, but a few things:

First, take the free hedge on your bet. Instead of dropping out, phrase it as "taking time off." An open door to return never hurts, and your parents will have an easier time coping. Plus the reality of bills and work is somewhat harsh and you may wish to return to the realtively easy life of college, where you can solve all social expectation problems, get free meals and housing, and build a bankroll plus study poker.

I agree completely about college (and further education) slowing down the learning process with lectures. With great professors it is an enjoyable way to learn. But it is inefficient. I stopped going to most classes halfway through my first year of medical school and simply read during those hours instead. Hugely positive EV. Med school - at least the pre-clinical part - became easy.

I also have a complaint about college curricula. The colleges seem hell bent on avoiding teaching practical information. Almost like it's a disease. Everyone should learn basic sales, communication, finance, relationship and negotiation techniques. It just makes life easier. Same could be said for parenting.

Go for it. I suggest starting each morning with two hours of poker study: TOP, books, and especially reviewing your losing hands. You will get very good doing that.

Beware of the emotional swings of poker. Find other poker pros and semipros to talk to.

And have fun. Good luck.

Matt

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
I would guess that if you had worked harder in high school and not ended up at UMD, you wouldn't find college boring. At UMD you were probably smarter than 90% of the kids there. If you had gone to a school where everyone was just as smart or smarter, as talented or more talented, and just as interesting as you, you might have stuck around.

But w/e, follow your dreams as a college dropout gambler. You have already said that you don't care about what 99% of people care about, so no one else can argue with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

We both knew people at Princeton with extremely high IQs who hated it there.

scrub

[Matt Flynn]

if i had to name the seven wonders of the world, the confidence of youth would be on the bubble.

matt

[nongice626]

[ QUOTE ]
if i had to name the seven wonders of the world, the confidence of youth would be on the bubble.

matt

[/ QUOTE ]

If i had the choice of touching the pot of hot water and getting burnt or simply taking your word that it would burn me, Id select the former.

What do you expect from Zee when there are a million guys telling him he cant do something because they couldnt do it?

[turnipmonster]

I don't see what the big deal is, justin can always go back to school if he wants. lots of people take time off for lots of reasons and eventually return.

it's possible (and likely) that justin (and many of us including me) is really mature about certain things and not very mature about other things. it's also highly likely that anyone at 19 lacks a lot of perspective, but how else are you going to gain that perspective other than thinking for yourself and seeing where it gets you?

--turnipmonster

[hoyaboy1]

Zee just needs to remember that there are tons of kids out there with 140+ IQs and 1450+ SATs. When people start considering themselves to be particularly unique or exceptional it very often causes harm. I agree with astroglide in the oither thread - he needs to be grounded, and fast.

[nongice626]

[ QUOTE ]
Zee just needs to remember that there are tons of kids out there with 140+ IQs and 1450+ SATs. When people start considering themselves to be particularly unique or exceptional it very often causes harm. I agree with astroglide in the oither thread - he needs to be grounded, and fast.

[/ QUOTE ]

watch any story about any successful person. there are always tons of people trying to ground them.

[edtost]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would guess that if you had worked harder in high school and not ended up at UMD, you wouldn't find college boring. At UMD you were probably smarter than 90% of the kids there. If you had gone to a school where everyone was just as smart or smarter, as talented or more talented, and just as interesting as you, you might have stuck around.

But w/e, follow your dreams as a college dropout gambler. You have already said that you don't care about what 99% of people care about, so no one else can argue with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

We both knew people at Princeton with extremely high IQs who hated it there.

scrub

[/ QUOTE ]

also, smart people aren't necessarily all that interesting.

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would guess that if you had worked harder in high school and not ended up at UMD, you wouldn't find college boring. At UMD you were probably smarter than 90% of the kids there. If you had gone to a school where everyone was just as smart or smarter, as talented or more talented, and just as interesting as you, you might have stuck around.

But w/e, follow your dreams as a college dropout gambler. You have already said that you don't care about what 99% of people care about, so no one else can argue with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

We both knew people at Princeton with extremely high IQs who hated it there.

scrub

[/ QUOTE ]

also, smart people aren't necessarily all that interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

And many people at Princeton aren't terribly smart.

scrub

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
watch any story about any successful person. there are always tons of people trying to ground them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because this is true, doesn't mean there aren't vastly greater numbers of failures that also had tons of people trying to ground them.

[hoyaboy1]

Especially true because failure hits those who are convinced that they are exceptional so much harder.

[_2000Flushes]

Quote from Dumb and Dumber for slickpoppa:

"You are one pathetic loser. No offense, though."


Quote from Almost Famous for ZeeJustin:

"You'll meet them all again on their long journey to the middle."

-2kF

[ggbman]

[ QUOTE ]

I have only taken "unofficial" IQ tests but am basically in the same ballpark. As you pointed out elsewhere, this level of aptitude on tests is probably not that uncommon on 2+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, i don't think that there are very many 2+2 posters with IQ's north of 140. It's so far above par and this group of people is not that elite. That said it doesn't ensure sucess. Who knows how high Stu Ungar's IQ was, and he was smart enough to get hooked on hard drugs... One point that people havent covered enough is that Zee's sucess will be largely contigent upon two things.

1.) Be able to beat the games he plays with consistency for many years. This should not be a problem given his track record.
2.) How he manages his money. If he goes out and buys a 740 IL and lives lavishy, he will continue to have to makes considerable sums of money to keep his standard of living. But don't forgot that making this much money this young means he can pay off a mortgage in a few years and won't pay the $300,000 in INTEREST that some people pay on their houses. Money management is key for poker players, both for their bankrolls and their lifestyle. However, i do believe someone capable of turning $250 into whatever suck total his BR is now knows how to handle his finances.

[Wayfare]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would guess that if you had worked harder in high school and not ended up at UMD, you wouldn't find college boring. At UMD you were probably smarter than 90% of the kids there. If you had gone to a school where everyone was just as smart or smarter, as talented or more talented, and just as interesting as you, you might have stuck around.

But w/e, follow your dreams as a college dropout gambler. You have already said that you don't care about what 99% of people care about, so no one else can argue with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

We both knew people at Princeton with extremely high IQs who hated it there.

scrub

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is due to their own choices more than anything else. I can't understand how anyone could really try to like it and not.

[esknights]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
If you can get good grades with little effort and aren't a loser who never goes out, you should finish school.



bill gates is such a dickhead. he never learned this lesson.

[/ QUOTE ]


Because most college dropouts end up like bill gates right?

[turnipmonster]

seems to me that most people consider themselves unique and exceptional. have you seen this show american idol? all those people consider themselves unique and exceptional. are they? who knows? I would venture to guess that most people think this way. counterproductive? maybe. harmful? naah.

to me, the important question to ask is, is my attitude helping me get where I want to be, or hurting me? what do I want out of life? in my opinion, a lot of things come much easier once you figure these things out.

there's a really great book called "The Listening Book", where the author has his each of his students write an essay about where they would like to be musically 5 years from now. his students wrote their ideal situations, and some of them seemed very farfetched, but a surprising amount of them ended up doing exactly those things they wrote about. try it yourself, it's pretty interesting and definitely gets you thinking. I know that in my life as a musician I have always had lofty goals and it's quite surprising how things you work towards can manifest in ways that you don't expect. for me the key is working very extremely hard at whatever it is you want to do, and not worry so much about immediate results.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
Take your condescending post and shove it up your ass. Dont ever respond to one of my posts again motherfvcker.

For all the your highlights you mentioned, how much money have people lost here. THAT WAS MY POINT!!!!

NOW FVCK OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. You continue to shock and awe with your rampant wit and clarity of thought and discussion.

My post was hardly "condescending." It was more pointing out what an insufferable, incorrect twit you are. There's a big difference. My last post didn't even strive to make me appear better than you, let alone other people. I would probably say that the first would be condescention, the latter, just taking a dig at you. The post was indeed meant to be a bit of a dig at you, for that I'm not going to apologize.

First off, I don't think that there's anything that you or anyone else can do to stop me from responding to any old thread I want. So I'll just kindly ignore your "advice" on this subject, and go about my business.

I'm going to assume that you were drunk while writing this post here, but I'll go about answering your question anyway.

"For all the your highlights you mentioned, how much money have people lost here. THAT WAS MY POINT!!!!"

Well,

[ QUOTE ]
One more thing...for all the chest thumping 'I am the best' attitude that goes on this forum, why is it your $58k is the only significant score I have heard at 2+2.

The reaction of your win by many was curious to say the least.

[/ QUOTE ]

was the post I was responding to. I don't see mentioned in there, at any point, in your short, nonsensical post, any question of "how much money people have lost here." So I don't see how anyone was supposed to come up with "that" as your point.

Throwing out your first post, and only regarding the second, I have no idea what your question means, "how much money people lost here?" Lost where? Do you believe that 2+2 as a whole is a -EV group? Or even a negative $ returns group over some short period of time? Please clarify what you mean, then perhaps we can have a discussion of how much people are losing.

I understand that you're clearly envious of, and have no idea the scale of, ZJ's total winnings, but at least you could try to lay off the pipe before trolling the board and doing your daily flaming.

citanul

[scotty34]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, everyone relax. My intention was to play devil's advocate in somewhat of a playful manner. I guees after 10 beers my perception of how people will interpret things can be a little skewed. I did't think that comments like "poor justin" would be taken seriously. So I apologize if my what I said could be interpreted as a personal attack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, for having 10 beers, I must say your use of paragraphs, organized thought, bold type face, vocabulary and spelling is excellent. After 10 beers mny comoonicashun skilds r nvot vary goot /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[sublime]

Wow, for having 10 beers, I must say your use of paragraphs, organized thought, bold type face, vocabulary and spelling is excellent. After 10 beers mny comoonicashun skilds r nvot vary goot

he had his bartender edit it for him. duh

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would guess that if you had worked harder in high school and not ended up at UMD, you wouldn't find college boring. At UMD you were probably smarter than 90% of the kids there. If you had gone to a school where everyone was just as smart or smarter, as talented or more talented, and just as interesting as you, you might have stuck around.

But w/e, follow your dreams as a college dropout gambler. You have already said that you don't care about what 99% of people care about, so no one else can argue with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

We both knew people at Princeton with extremely high IQs who hated it there.

scrub

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is due to their own choices more than anything else. I can't understand how anyone could really try to like it and not.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are a lot of things about the way other people behave that you have a hard time understanding--are you surprised this is one of them?

scrub

[astroglide]

i could both make a better living than zeejustin could playing poker and i don't do it exclusively. i'm also young, i'm not in debt, i'm unmarried, i have no children, and i didn't go to college. it's not just people "who failed" that are disagreeing with his attitudes.

[Chobohoya]

[ QUOTE ]


Just because this is true, doesn't mean there aren't vastly greater numbers of failures that also had tons of people trying to ground them.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has nothing to do with anything. You should already know that.

edit: in response to hoyaboy, not tim

[nongice626]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
If you can get good grades with little effort and aren't a loser who never goes out, you should finish school.



bill gates is such a dickhead. he never learned this lesson.

[/ QUOTE ]


Because most college dropouts end up like bill gates right?

[/ QUOTE ]

No because all college drop outs have a realistic $500,000 minimum expectaion in 4 years.

i just pwned you as the computer nerds say.

[nongice626]

[ QUOTE ]
i could both make a better living than zeejustin could playing poker and i don't do it exclusively. i'm also young, i'm not in debt, i'm unmarried, i have no children, and i didn't go to college. it's not just people "who failed" that are disagreeing with his attitudes.

[/ QUOTE ]

what makes you think you are better than zee at poker?

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
"2) Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with how much money one makes. There are many people with below average intelligence who make a lot of money and many people who are very intelligent making not much money."

This is absolutely crazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it's not. And he is absolutely right. There was a study analyzing peoples scores on SAT tests, etc. and the smartest ones went into physics and similar disciplines. The smart but not brilliant tended to become doctors and lawyers. The people below them went into business. When you look at the income of the people on the higher end of the intelligence scale their income is often on an inverted scale. The brightest ones make the least money while the smart, but not extremely bright tend to make a lot of money in business. Mitch Sogin and Steve Hajduk are two of the brightest scientists on this planet. I would be shocked and amazed if they were not in the top 100 of the brightest people on the planet. They are not rich men. Bruiser, you are probably earning more now than many of the brightest people on the planet.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I know several people from my undergraduate years that are earning 6 figures right now via business connections. They are not very smart. In fact, 3 of them I consider morons. I tutored them in econ and math. I really was amazed at how much they struggled with certain concepts. They were fun to hang out with, but they are morons. They will probably earn more next year than I ever will.

[Chobohoya]

Unfortunately, what Wacki says is true. You don't even need the study, there's a saying: "'A' Students go on to PHDs, 'C' Students go on to be millionaires."

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately, what Wacki says is true. You don't even need the study, there's a saying: "'A' Students go on to PHDs, 'C' Students go on to be millionaires."

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my QLC. Should I get a Ph.D. and slave my life away trying to save the world, or get a MBA and become an alcoholic? I hate life changing decisions.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i could both make a better living than zeejustin could playing poker and i don't do it exclusively. i'm also young, i'm not in debt, i'm unmarried, i have no children, and i didn't go to college. it's not just people "who failed" that are disagreeing with his attitudes.

[/ QUOTE ]

what makes you think you are better than zee at poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably the fact that he's better at poker than Zee.

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i could both make a better living than zeejustin could playing poker and i don't do it exclusively. i'm also young, i'm not in debt, i'm unmarried, i have no children, and i didn't go to college. it's not just people "who failed" that are disagreeing with his attitudes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well put. (Seriously)

what makes you think you are better than zee at poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably the fact that he's better at poker than Zee.

[/ QUOTE ]


Well put. (Seriously)

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i could both make a better living than zeejustin could playing poker and i don't do it exclusively. i'm also young, i'm not in debt, i'm unmarried, i have no children, and i didn't go to college. it's not just people "who failed" that are disagreeing with his attitudes.

[/ QUOTE ]

what makes you think you are better than zee at poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he's Astroglide, duh.

[Chobohoya]

Get a PhD and become and acoholic. Problem solved.

[thatpfunk]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with how much money one makes.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



There's no correlation? Riiiiiggghhtt.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you measure intelligence?

The statement is ignoring those with mental deficiencies. A more true statement would have been, being intelligent does not ensure monetary success. However, if you believe that only intelligent individuals are running successful companies, you are wrong. There are many, many highly successful people (monetarily) who you or I would probably not consider "intelligent."

[JaBlue]

My mother works her ass off in academia and makes just enough to get by. She's an MD doing research. Her boyfriend is a closet salesman who immigrated from Israel and didn't go to college. He's making three times what she makes. He's a great family guy. Which one of them is more intelligent?

[Zoltri]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand that you're clearly envious of, and have no idea the scale of, ZJ's total winnings

[/ QUOTE ]

The only thing I am envious is the kids age...thats it. You would be hard pressed to find someone in their 40's like myself who would not say that. If I was Justin's age I certainly would not be sitting in front of a computer playing poker. Why do some people have a hard time accepting that as a total waste of their youth?


[ QUOTE ]
Do you believe that 2+2 as a whole is a -EV group?

[/ QUOTE ]


The membership at 2+2 stands at 23,000. I would estimate 100 of those are world class players and 1000-2000 make money consistently. How about the rest Einstein?


Now, as for you, I don't know what makes you so dumb but it really works. You are like a pesky mosquito that wont go away. Before you come back for some more blood, I should warn you I come equipped with a can of STFU. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Wayfare]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would guess that if you had worked harder in high school and not ended up at UMD, you wouldn't find college boring. At UMD you were probably smarter than 90% of the kids there. If you had gone to a school where everyone was just as smart or smarter, as talented or more talented, and just as interesting as you, you might have stuck around.

But w/e, follow your dreams as a college dropout gambler. You have already said that you don't care about what 99% of people care about, so no one else can argue with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

We both knew people at Princeton with extremely high IQs who hated it there.

scrub

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is due to their own choices more than anything else. I can't understand how anyone could really try to like it and not.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are a lot of things about the way other people behave that you have a hard time understanding--are you surprised this is one of them?

scrub

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not so much that I have trouble understanding their behavior is that they act in a way so strange it's hard to understand. Not liking college qualifies.

Also, the condescention should be sprinkled less obviously my friend.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]

The membership at 2+2 stands at 23,000. I would estimate 100 of those are world class players and 1000-2000 make money consistently. How about the rest Einstein?

[/ QUOTE ]

100 world class players, you're kidding right? I can think of Ray Zee and thats about it.

[Zoltri]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The membership at 2+2 stands at 23,000. I would estimate 100 of those are world class players and 1000-2000 make money consistently. How about the rest Einstein?

[/ QUOTE ]

100 world class players, you're kidding right? I can think of Ray Zee and thats about it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was being nice about the 100 players but I believe there are more than just Ray Zee.

[Michael Davis]

You guys are really arguing semantics, I think. There isn't a clear definition for a WCP.

-Michael

[turnipmonster]

clearly some people just don't like the college enviroment. the answer is not always that they just didn't go to the right school. If you don't like bagels, is it going to matter whether they're H&amp;H or Noah's?

--turnipmonster

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
You guys are really arguing semantics, I think. There isn't a clear definition for a WCP.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously yeah. I do happen to strongly believe its a very overused term though. I wouldn't say there should be more 25 WCP's in total for any sport or activity.

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
My mother works her ass off in academia and makes just enough to get by. She's an MD doing research. Her boyfriend is a closet salesman who immigrated from Israel and didn't go to college. He's making three times what she makes. He's a great family guy. Which one of them is more intelligent?

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all you didn't really give us any information which would let us know who is more intelligent. Second, this is a terrible comparison because clearly one of the people is not trying to make money and one of them is. If one person is motivated to make a lot of money that is always going to be the overriding factor. Not all smart people are motivated to make a lot of money. But if you start with just the subset of people motivated to make a lot of money, I'm quite certain that the smart people in that group crush the not so smart ones.

[tpir90036]

You left out the most important part of ZJ's originial post:

20. My life is currently the best it has ever been, and I have no reason to believe that this won't last.

In the grand scheme of things, this is all that really matters.

Also, I am sure ZJ or any other smart person can make good for themselves post-poker. In any event, I leave you with a quote from Paul Phillips:

"My advice to aspiring pros is to change aspirations. Poker seems much more glamorous than it actually is, and for every player who is living the dream, there are dozens who aren't. If you're smart enough to succeed at this game, you're smart enough to succeed in the real world, with much greater satisfaction. If you don't want to work for “the man”, then start your own company and put your efforts into that.

I think poker is a great hobby but a very poor choice of profession. I'm concerned that the current poker craze is going to leave us with legions who eventually discover that poker isn't all it's cracked up to be, but who have also rendered themselves largely unemployable."

I don't think ZJ or any other young smart guy will be "largely unemployable" per se. But the sentiment is a good one.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Unbelievable.

Huh? What so unbelievable about it. It's true and has been documented many times.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't like bagels, is it going to matter whether they're H&amp;H or Noah's?


[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely. H&amp;H are way better. If I have to stake my life on a non-bagel-liker liking a bagel, I'm definitely going with H&amp;H.

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, the condescention should be sprinkled less obviously my friend.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ths fact that you have so little perspective on yourself that you said this in a thread where you made two incredibly condescending posts about someone you don't know pretty much makes my point.

scrub

[apd138]

[ QUOTE ]
Replying to general themse in this thread, no one in particular...

1) 85% of what I learned in college had nothing to do with academics
2) Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with how much money one makes. There are many people with below average intelligence who make a lot of money and many people who are very intelligent making not much money.

[/ QUOTE ]That second statement is so laughable it is hard to believe anyone regardless of intelligence would be capable of saying it.

[Wayfare]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, the condescention should be sprinkled less obviously my friend.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ths fact that you have so little perspective on yourself that you said this in a thread where you made two incredibly condescending posts about someone you don't know pretty much makes my point.

scrub

[/ QUOTE ]

The first post was a suggestion that if the people were of a higher academic quality, he may have found it less boring. Maybe not. The second post was simply expressing my lack of understanding about how people can actually go through college and not enjoy it. If people don't enjoy college, they will have a hell of a time enjoying a real job. College is a blast, and my first real job, while good by most accounts, really sucks ass.

And you're right -- I should not have gotten involved because I do not know ZJ and any suggestion I make it probably just going to offend someone on this board. I tried to express that in my first post -- that if you want to be a free-spirited gambler your entire life, all the [censored] luck to you.

[B00T]

I read the first 2 pages of this post, and now coming back to another 180 more or whatever...

I was looking for ZJ's original post that this stemmed from...can someone link to it here, I didnt see it in the sections I read here.

[VBM]

what is H&amp;H? My favorite bagel so far, has been the ones in DC's Union Station Au Bon Pain. They're always hot &amp; fresh and crusty on the outside &amp; soft/smooshy on the inside...

[turnipmonster]

please tell me you didn't just go there.

[turnipmonster]

it was a bad analogy, given that there's no school that dominates academia the way H&amp;H dominates the bagel market. perhaps noah's vs. bruegger's is more apt.

--turnipmonster

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
it was a bad analogy, given that there's no school that dominates academia the way H&amp;H dominates the bagel market. perhaps noah's vs. bruegger's is more apt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Esa &gt; Tal &gt; H&amp;H

[tpir90036]

[ QUOTE ]
I was looking for ZJ's original post that this stemmed from...can someone link to it here...

[/ QUOTE ]
no prob. it's right here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=exchange&amp;Number=1676714#Po st1676714).

[turnipmonster]

[ QUOTE ]
The second post was simply expressing my lack of understanding about how people can actually go through college and not enjoy it. If people don't enjoy college, they will have a hell of a time enjoying a real job.

[/ QUOTE ]

????? there are lots of people that go through college and didn't enjoy it. there are lots of people who like their jobs way more than they liked college. are you saying you have a hard time understanding this?

FWIW, I worked in R&amp;D (in drug discovery and then in machine language translation) when I was in college, and enjoyed my jobs much more than I enjoyed the rest of my college experience.

[turnipmonster]

I don't buy it, but haven't been to Esa so I'll keep an open mind. where's a good location?

[Wayfare]

I am curious as to why they did not enjoy it.

[Voltron87]

21st and 1st or something.

Columbia Bagels (Recently closed for block renovation) &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; all.

[VBM]

i did...my apologies.

what is H&amp;H?

I live in Seattle and there's pretty much no bagel shops at all (but plenty of coffee &amp; teriyaki!)

oh and my $0.02, w/ respect to ZJ, if his heart's not in it, take a year off from school. he's old enough to go vote, to fight in a war; then he's old enough to make some decisions for himself about his life.

i don't want to tell ZJ what to do or turn this into a QLC post, but for myself, i regret not working harder then b/c now i have nothing to show for the time i pissed away in college.

One impression you should definitely get from these boards in particular, is that it's cool to be informed and educated and an expert in something you are passionate about. For most of us, we just don't have the inherent talent to be *that* in poker...maybe ZJ does and doesn't need college for that...?

[turnipmonster]

you can't think of any reasons why someone wouldn't enjoy college? really? like, none? I'm not being sarcastic, I am just curious. to you, there are no reasons why everyone wouldn't enjoy the college experience?

[Wayfare]

Too much work
No friends
Don't do well
Disillusioned in general
People make fun of you b/c of various things
Feel inadequate

Those?

[sfer]

21st and 1st. Yummy pumpernickel. We'll play an all night session sometime and meander over in the morning.

[esknights]

[ QUOTE ]
No because all college drop outs have a realistic $500,000 minimum expectaion in 4 years.


[/ QUOTE ]

Please cite your source for this statistic because there have been many studies that prove otherwise.

[turnipmonster]

the reasons I was thinking of were more along the lines of justin's reasoning. college in a lot of ways is not a very flexible enviroment (this obviously depends on school+major). I mean, you have to get up and go to class, have to take all the tests and turn in all the homework, etc etc. if you have other stuff going on in your life (I personally always did, working 2 jobs), there is really no flexibility or give and take regarding that. professors/TAs/lecturers can be really boring/bad/annoying, there really is a lot of baggage to deal with whilst attending university.

don't get me wrong, I didn't hate college (didn't really love it either, it was a means to an end). but I can certainly see how some people would.

--turnipmonster

[bogey]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of people question the fact that at age 14 I can have friends that are 30+, and to be honost, I can't really explain how this is likely without explaining the social aspect of magic.

[/ QUOTE ]

i know this is kind of a nerdy place, but does anyone else think its funny to be talking about the "social" aspect of magic

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A lot of people question the fact that at age 14 I can have friends that are 30+, and to be honost, I can't really explain how this is likely without explaining the social aspect of magic.

[/ QUOTE ]

i know this is kind of a nerdy place, but does anyone else think its funny to be talking about the "social" aspect of magic

[/ QUOTE ]
No, but I think it's lame to bring this thread back after it's been dead (and thankfully so) for four days, only to make such a 'meh' post.

[FakeKramer]

[ QUOTE ]
Originally Posted by ZeeJustin:
I get bored of the typical college lifestyle. Study during the week, and get drunk during the weekends. Throw some sex in if you're lucky. There's more to life than this, and I'm experiencing it right now, and loving every second of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good for you man. I wish ya nothing but the best in LA, and tell you now, I'm jealous. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Hulk Hogan]

For what it's worth I agree with everything Slickpoppa had to say and think ZJ is a lazy, socially inept, egotistical little douche who is going to have a VERY hard time making it in the real world.

[offTopic]

[ QUOTE ]
For what it's worth I agree with everything Slickpoppa had to say and think ZJ is a lazy, socially inept, egotistical little douche who is going to have a VERY hard time making it in the real world.

[/ QUOTE ]

You forgot to mention that he probably doesn't take his vitamins and say his prayers at night like all the other little Hulkamaniacs.

[mmbt0ne]

Yeah, Justin's a lazy bum with poker pipe dreams that won't materialize and aren't worth following at his age.

Oh, btw, he's at the final table on the EPT.
http://europeanpokertour.blogspot.com/

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
with poker pipe dreams that won't materialize

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said anything about his ability to succeed in poker. I merely questioned his ability to succeed in areas outside of poker after having dropped out of college.

[GoSox]

This thread could be a nomination for most entertaining thread of the year.

(to no one in particular) Of all the different people I associate with in life it amazes me that this site is the one place that you can get almost ridiculed by strangers for having a college education and a 9 to 5 job. I hated college, what 19 year old didnt. Couldnt stand tests, lectures, or any of it. I did it though because I had the vision to see the value it would have many years down the road. I understand it's not for everyone, but you went your own direction, show some respect for the rest of us in doing the same.

Zee - you seem like an intelligent, nice guy. Good luck to you in whatever you do. I sincerely hope the path you chose will lead you in 20 years to the level of success I found in the path I chose, financially and otherwise.

[byronkincaid]

I met Justin in Deauville, he mentioned this thread. Saying he should stay in college is like saying Wayne Rooney should go back to school and pass his GCSE's. Dumb.

[Aytumious]

Could the OP have picked a worse example of why going pro at a young age is a bad idea?