France: Big Brother run amok

[benfranklin]

The French economy is in the tank, largely due to a long tradition of liberal do-gooders trying to legislate a euphorian state without regard to the nuts and bolts of actually running a global economy.

French law dictates a 35-hour work week (and big-buck benefits), and workers cannot work more than 180 hours of overtime a year. This is less than 4 hours of overtime a week over a 50 week work year, still less than 40 hours a week. This makes France unable to compete with its European neighbors due to high labor costs.

On top of that, over 25% of French workers are in the private sector. Now the government is trying to relax the restrictions by letting private sector labor voluntarily work more hours, to make France competitive with others in the EU, but the workers, the unions, and the Socialist Party are militantly opposed.

If it wasn't already apparent, France's days as a world power are growing shorter by the moment.

France (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1519&ncid=732&e=7&u=/afp/20050205/bs_afp/francelabourprotests)

[zaxx19]

They are still a global power?? Who knew.

For a time, it will be the northernmost Islamic state ever, though say around 2075 or something. Thats gonna count as something. Oh wait what about the Netherlands.

[BluffTHIS!]

The French order of priorities:

1) Their over-inflated ego that says they simply MUST be the most englightened country since they ARE French, with the inescapable conclusion that all Europe and indeed the world should follow their lead;

2) Their own economic well-being;

3) Their own economic well-being;

4) Their own economic well-being;

5) The demands of friendship and moral ethics.

[Il_Mostro]

Exchange France with USA and it still seems true.

[BluffTHIS!]

Right. That's why the US is spending 100's of billions of dollars and thousands of lives in sht holes like Iraq and Kosovo to help other nations that have sizeable minorities that are not grateful, while France twiddles their thumbs and talks about the situations for years without doing anything constructive, while tens of thousands are killed and tortured in in Iraq, Bosnia, Kosovo and Rwanda.

The real reason France didn't want anyone to topple dictator Saddam was that it had and was continuing to supply arms and materials that it was worried a post-Saddam government would not pay for.

If any nation regards France as a sincere friend, then that nation is equivalent to the poker player sitting down in a game and not realizing that it is he who is the sucker.

[Il_Mostro]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the list you posted.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
This has absolutely nothing to do with the list you posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Putting economic considerations over the misery and suffering of those under the oppression of dictatorships or in the midst of internecine conflict certainly does have to do with my #5 being at the bottom of 2,3 &4.

[Il_Mostro]

Ohh, and here I were thinking you went into Iraq because of WMD. Silly me.

[ QUOTE ]
Putting economic considerations over the misery and suffering of those under the oppression of dictatorships

[/ QUOTE ]
And how does this not apply to the US as well? (and much of the rest of the western world, of course). Think Saudi, NK, Sudan...

[BluffTHIS!]

The US does what it can where it can, which especially in the case of North Korea is not feasible without a major war likely involving nukes. Whereas Bosnia and Kosovo are in France's backyard.

And regarding a country's moral ethics and treatment of friends, let's not forget your own home country (unless you just reside there) of Sweden, which let Germany go through it's territory to invade neighbor Norway during WWII. Of course they later /images/graemlins/blush.gif reversed that decision in 1943 after they saw how the wind was blowing.

And btw, I searched your past posts for the last 3 months and found only politics and a few other odd ones but NO POKER RELATED POSTS. Are you just a politics troll? If you can't have anything relevant to say about poker on a poker forum, then it's clear to me your political opinions can't merit any consideration.

[Il_Mostro]

[ QUOTE ]
And regarding a country's moral ethics and treatment of friends, let's not forget your own home country (unless you just reside there) of Sweden, which let Germany go through it's territory to invade neighbor Norway during WWII. Of course they later reversed that decision in 1943 after they saw how the wind was blowing.

[/ QUOTE ]
Look up neutral in a dictionary.

I don't say I necessarily agree with it, but Sweden is neutral.

[ QUOTE ]
And btw, I searched your past posts for the last 3 months and found only politics and a few other odd ones but NO POKER RELATED POSTS. Are you just a politics troll? If you can't have anything relevant to say about poker on a poker forum, then it's clear to me your political opinions can't merit any consideration.

[/ QUOTE ]
Umm. No, I don't post very much on poker at present time, I don't play as much as I used to. And I'm not a troll.
And what, exactly, does my political opinions have to do with the amount of poker posts I've made the past 3 months? Or are you just desperately trying to divert attention from the fact that you don't really know what you are talking about?

I'm saying that the US cannot critizise France for not caring about other people/countries without accepting the same critizism of yourselves.

You seem to be a good example of your #1.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
Look up neutral in a dictionary.


[/ QUOTE ]

Oh your right! I'm sorry! A neutral country is indeed one that allows an aggressive country to use it's territory as a conduit to invade a third country! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Il_Mostro]

I'm not trying to defend Swedens position towards Germany in WWII. I don't agree with it, but I was not there, and I don't have much knowledge as to why the desitions was made.
It also has little if anything to do with the argument at hand.

I'm looking forward to your response to the other, more important, things I wrote.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm looking forward to your response to the other, more important, things I wrote.

[/ QUOTE ]

They are already answered by my previous posts if you'd read them carefully. You're intentionally being dense. If you had read them you'd see that we CAN criticize France for not helping other countries, without accepting the same criticism of ourselves, precisely because WE HAVE BEEN HELPING OTHER COUNTRIES, on our own if necessary or with Britain. Examples: Kosovo, Macedonia, Kuwait, Iraq.

And the best punishment I could wish on you and those like you who exhibit a refusal to see facts that do not accord with the way they would like things to be, is that France be your friend.

These are my final comments - you get the last word in.

[Il_Mostro]

[ QUOTE ]
They are already answered by my previous posts if you'd read them carefully.

[/ QUOTE ]
No they are not, and if you think they are you need to rethink.

Yes, you have helped countries. You have also done great harm in other countries. It was you who put Saddam there. I really don't think you can say that by first putting a dictator there and then removing him, killing 100 000 people when doing so, can be seen as only help. You have also toppled democratically elected governments all over central america.

So, no, you cannot critizise France and maintain that you cannot be critized.

[ QUOTE ]
These are my final comments - you get the last word in.

[/ QUOTE ]
So you mean you are not going to explain your silly idea that my political opinion has anything to do with the number of poker related posts I've made the last 3 months? Now, that's a shocker...

[ToneLoc]

[ QUOTE ]
Right. That's why the US is spending 100's of billions of dollars and thousands of lives in sht holes like Iraq and Kosovo to help other nations that have sizeable minorities that are not grateful, while France twiddles their thumbs and talks about the situations for years without doing anything constructive, while tens of thousands are killed and tortured in in Iraq, Bosnia, Kosovo and Rwanda.


[/ QUOTE ]

To help?? Is that what the states did in Nicaragua, Colombia, Israel, Afghanistan, Vietnam ??

Some french think of the US as a country of ignorants. That's thx to people like you.

[Koller]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, you have helped countries. You have also done great harm in other countries.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
It was you who put Saddam there. I really don't think you can say that by first putting a dictator there and then removing him, killing 100 000 people when doing so, can be seen as only help.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Felix_Nietsche]

I thought it was Saddam's uncle that put him into power.

[Il_Mostro]

Saddam has had a lot of help from the states over the years, maybe "put him into power" was a clumsy choise of words from me.

This does not change the fact that thought the US has done good in some countries it has done bad in others. The world owe a lot to the states, for good and for bad. This does not, however, mean that you guys are above critisism as bluffthis seems to think.

[lastchance]

The US's list should be the same as this one, minus one or two economic well-beings maybe. Countries are only responsible to their citizens, not anyone else.

The US does not go to Iraq or Afghanistan because people are suffering. It goes because it is in it's own best interest. Afghanistan was invaded after 9/11. We could have helped them at any time.

[Felix_Nietsche]

True....there have been military interventions by the American govt that I did not like. E.g. Bosnia.

During the cold war, the USA gave plenty of money/arms to anti-communist (who often were thugs). But on the other hand, the communists that were targets of these thugs were thuggish themselves. So it was usually two groups of bad people killing eachother with arms supplied from the USA/USSR.

In retrospect, the USA could have sat back more and allow the communist runned economies to have collapse while capitalist based economies ran circles around them. After all, can we agree this is the reason the USSR collapse? So the USA could have skipped the Vietnam war and waited for the communists to destroy Vietnam's economy. But President John F Kennedy sent the US military into Vietnam and LBJ elevated the war... And the rest is history.

In the post cold war, the USA will be giving support to countries which are friendly in the "war on terror". The Pakistani dictator is a good example. The problem for the USA is how to treat Saudi Arabia, which is a has three main power groups:
1. Royals who want to keep their power and privliges.
2. Wahabis who hate the West and non believers.
3. Royals who are sympathetics to the Wahabis.

If the Wahabis and Royals have a civil war, the world will shake...

[MMMMMM]

Here is what is wrong with these latte-sipping nincompoops:

If they want to work a 35-hour week themselves, great! Let them! But don't let them prohibit others from working more hours if others so desire.

Everyone who voted "yes" in favor of the law that Frenchmen cannot work more than 35 hours/week deserves to go broke.